snc
Veteran
we had this situation already with ps4pro and it didnt turn out that bad
PS5 Pro *spawn
- Thread starter chris1515
- Start date
I think Xbox has been unsuccessfully courting the value oriented market this generation, but if they can make a $300-400 next gen console when the PS6 is $700+, I think they have a shot at disruption. They just need to put out more content that proves that Series S was a worthwhile investment. I do think that if we look at the most graphically impressive games this gen so far, I keep coming back to Rift Apart, Flight Simulator and Hellblade 2. Of the 2 titles that are on Series S, I think they hold up pretty well. I understand that marketing games in their highest fidelity is important, but I think Microsoft could do well by putting together a sizzle reel with games like Hellblade 2 and Flight Sim with a quote like "Next generation visuals at less than $300".
I think one thing that's different this time, is that PS4Pro and Series X were marketed as machines that would play the base model games, many of which were less than 1080p, at 4k. That added a new level to the graphical fidelity. This time, it's play the games you already play at 4k (or whatever the fidelity mode is targeting) but faster. So last time, it was "Look how much better this can look" and this time, it's "30fps is choppy".
Back then people didn't really want to play the same thing at higher resolution as not that many people had 4K TVs (way less than 75%). Many of them wanted more stable / better framerates. Now 75% of people actively want and select higher framerate and finally Sony have the perfect product for that. 75% of people would be ready to upgrade to PS5 Pro! Scalpers are going to have a field day and Sony may have been eventually right with their pricing strategy.
I remember people getting hoaxed into spending thousands of euros to buy PS5s that they never got and the average price of PS5 was actually super high for months / year. The price should actually reduce scalping in Europe where we know stocks will be much lower than in US.
This is basically the console equivalent of a DualSense. Premium product with some profit margin for a somewhat niche market.
The choice to go with 2TB basically allowed them to increment the price by $100 even if the cost addition wasn't that much. Also if you want to add a disc drive you have the option (of buying Sony's accessory).
Also feel like the technical weeds and transparency are less with this than we got with past consoles. The sales pitch was very brief and high level.
The choice to go with 2TB basically allowed them to increment the price by $100 even if the cost addition wasn't that much. Also if you want to add a disc drive you have the option (of buying Sony's accessory).
Also feel like the technical weeds and transparency are less with this than we got with past consoles. The sales pitch was very brief and high level.
I think we should be careful about this 75% claim.
Remember that this generation really only started like late last year. Before that, we spent several years in a cross-gen period. And this cross gen period spoiled a lot of people into the idea that they could get 60fps without any big sacrifices to image quality, cuz PS5/XSX had the overhead to do that for such games. So yea, I can imagine the vast majority of people were picking Performance mode, cuz there was little to gain going with Quality mode.
But that's changed. We've started to get a bunch of heavier, true next gen games where the actual image quality/graphics hit for using Performance Mode is a fair bit more painful, since the overhead isn't there anymore.
Basically, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a difference in the metrics of what people were choosing in the first three years of cross gen domination versus in say, the last year of full next gen titles. Yet the cross-gen period was a fair bit longer and had way more games, so will weigh heavier in an average.
What really irks me is that $699 is NOT £699! Are they insane? £699 is currently $910! And $699 equates to £538. They're mad. Even I will wait for an inevitable price drop, if I ever get this thing.
After reading EG comments, I wonder if they are hedging their bets with Pound's value? £700 is perfect at a historical vague-average of 1.2:1 $:£. However, the Pound is presently strong at 1.3:1 adding 10% UK Premium. If Sony think the GBP is going to drop again, pricing at $840 with a 1.3:1 exchange rate would mean losing when that happens.
snc
Veteran
dollars price is without sale tax but even then the £ price should be probably little lower
Interesting. I thought I calculated this correctly.
18TOPs 32FP
dual issue -> 36 TOPS 32FP
36TOPs 32FP -> 72TOPs 16FP
72TOPs 16FP -> 150TOPs 8Int
?
Where did my math go wrong here?
Am I supposed to 2x for sparsity?
that would get you to 300TOPs. If that is the case, then there is no XDNA.
snc
Veteran
Some info about sparsity calculations from nvidia
Sparsity in INT8: Training Workflow and Best Practices for NVIDIA TensorRT Acceleration | NVIDIA Technical Blog
The training stage of deep learning (DL) models consists of learning numerous dense floating-point weight matrices, which results in a massive amount of floating-point computations during inference.
developer.nvidia.com
hmm. That would double the throughput for sparse int8 models only however. You won't get 300TOPs without sparsity-quantization as they fill 4bits that normally would be zeroed out.Some info about sparsity calculations from nvidia
Sparsity in INT8: Training Workflow and Best Practices for NVIDIA TensorRT Acceleration | NVIDIA Technical Blog
The training stage of deep learning (DL) models consists of learning numerous dense floating-point weight matrices, which results in a massive amount of floating-point computations during inference.
I guess that would be 300TOPs int4 then. That's not what the internal documents are saying here though. I dunno sus =P
So 1200 TOPS INT1. I'm sure an XOR on two 64 bit words counts as 64 single bit operations. Maybe even 128 if we count two bits being involved.
I agree, it will likely increase, more so with PS5 Pro on the market. There is a clear pattern here. Next target is 120fps on console. There are actually more games with performance mode than at launch. All games released in the last year or so have a performance mode. On Playstation at least. Developers have access to this stat now. 30fps only game is a thing of the past. The market want 60fps and higher. Sure there may be one game out of 100 that will have some levels struggling to reach 60fps like BG3 or DD2 because of bad optimization or really ambitious targets, sure, but it's over for 30fps console gaming era.
In wave64 mode 30
In wave32 mode 15
And PS5 is 20 and 10?
How do you showcase double the framerate on pics? Trolls are having a lot of fun on social medias.
If we believe the 67 TFLOPS FP16 leak then it should be 16.75 TFLOPS in classical FP32 terms. But with PSSR and new RT in the picture this is a very different scenario than previous gens.
Sony said the clocks are up to 2.35 ghz. But they also have been very careful with specs this time. There could be 2 different clocks the way RDNA3 GPUs work and they could use different (higher) clocks for PS5 BC.
If we believe the 67 TFLOPS FP16 leak then it should be 16.75 TFLOPS in classical FP32 terms. But with PSSR and new RT in the picture this is a very different scenario than previous gens.
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