PS4 And Xbox One Have An 'Exclusive' Problem

[fbomber]

*tear shirt off*

*puts on Nintendo cape*

Nintendo have done some of the best story-driven games (Zelda?), they just never aimed for graphics fidelity. Their excellence have always been characters and gameplay, that's the Nintendo Magic. A game like Super Smash Bros is almost impossible to make by anyone else. The fact that it has zero story doesn't diminish it's accomplishment. Also, the fact they they didn't come up with anything new for years is a completely different discussion.

The story in CoD is just a frame that exists to support the gameplay. The interest of the game is the combat itself, the combat strategy, and the immersive experience. This is why we have so much disagreement here, not everybody likes the same type of games. I love story-driven games a lot, but trying to say one form is superior to the other is a bit condescending.

Agreed. Narrowing diversity would be stupid, as people´s tastes are different.

For example, I enjoy Mario and Zelda games. But that doesn´t stop me from being 90 hours into a single play of Dragon Age: Inquisition. Previous to that, Driveclub, FIFA 15 and Mordor. There´s space for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

*tear shirt off*

*puts on Nintendo cape*

Nintendo have done some of the best story-driven games (Zelda?), they just never aimed for graphics fidelity. Their excellence have always been characters and gameplay, that's the Nintendo Magic. A game like Super Smash Bros is almost impossible to make by anyone else. The fact that it has zero story doesn't diminish it's accomplishment. Also, the fact they they didn't come up with anything new for years is a completely different discussion.

The story in CoD is just a frame that exists to support the gameplay. The interest of the game is the combat itself, the combat strategy, and the immersive experience. This is why we have so much disagreement here, not everybody likes the same type of games. I love story-driven games a lot, but trying to say one form is superior to the other is a bit condescending.

Is that an "Original Nintendo Seal of Quality" badge on your underpants?!

 

[MrFox]

Is that an "Original Nintendo Seal of Quality" badge on your underpants?!

 

[Nesh]

You don't need "narrative innovation" to be a game. Game's are for playing. Maybe you only like narrative story games, but it's ridiculous to think or expect that's what everyone else wants. And look at the frickin' sales figures! Games with little narrative content, including Nintendo's, are able to sell extremely well. Ergo, the public value 'non-hardcore' games, even if you don't.

Nintendo make more than Wii Music and Wii Fit. You've deliberately selected two unrepresentative titles. Try Mario Kart and Mario Bros game. Mario Kart Wii = 35 million. TLoU = 7 million. TLoU and other games are awesome. That doesn't stop Mario Kart and other Nintendo titles also being awesome in different ways that other people, if not you, value.

The Wii was a special occasion. Sure the Wii U Mario Kart sold millions but it will never reach Wii status. I dont think they will be able to sustain their console business in the long run with such a limited portfolio without coming up with a new idea of how people can have fun with their games. GameCube had the same franchises but failed to invoke huge interest. I believe that the Wii U still benefits from Wii's success because it introduced an experience and established a particular image for its games to millions of Wii owners, that otherwise wouldnt have given a chance to gaming. Wii U is the only place Wii owners can continue to experience Mario. Not to mention that he is probably the most recognizable character in VG history and not only, with Micky Mouse being the only similarly famous character. At the same time the Wii U is the only console that has a brand awareness known for family friendly experience.

I doubt that the PS4 and XB1 would be able to sell similar games as much as Nintendo does even if these games are just as good and family friendly.

I cant recall any other gameplay-non-narrative focused family friendly game on a console that has seen such success as any of the traditional Nintendo games.

For some reasons it is just impossible to replicate those sales no matter how much other developers try.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What? Sorry? What's that "game balancing" you speak of? I assume it's something related to the "playability" or the "gameplay" maybe?...once you get older you'll discover that this "playability" is just a lie as big as the "nintendo magic"...

As a moderator, it's not my job to censor ideas. My role is to facilitate sensible, respectful discussion. As part of that, I recognise your POV. However, to summarise in as constructive and helpful way possible as I can while trying to remain succinct, you're a moron who has no place on this board and are forcibly removed so the not-crazy-folk can carry on with their discussions.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

As a moderator, it's not my job to censor ideas. My role is to facilitate sensible, respectful discussion. As part of that, I recognise your POV. However, to summarise in as constructive and helpful way possible as I can while trying to remain succinct, you're a moron who has no place on this board and are forcibly removed so the not-crazy-folk can carry on with their discussions.

Awwww, damn. And here I was going to smack him with "Dear Esther" a game that is perhaps near the epitome of being game as art with a mysteriously untold but slowly unraveled story which isn't resolved by the end of the "game" like any good decent upstanding independent high Art movie. And thus left to the viewer to fill in the blanks, and talk about ad nauseum with other people who appreciate high Art. Also absolutely fabulous graphics for the time which still holds up quite well even to this day when compared to many AAA titles.

But which sorely lacks, gameplay. Wonderful experience. Great piece of Art. Incredible story experience. Pretty crappy game. But I recommend it to everyone I know because it is a great piece of Art. But a crappy game...

Different strokes for different folks.

Regards,
SB

 

[tuna]

So you want games to just be glorified toys like Nintendo, but as a hardcore player I can't agree with you. Videogames are much more than what you want them to be, and once you get older you'll discover that this "playability" is just a lie as big as the "nintendo magic".

I am really old, got one kid and I don't want (some) games to be like "glorified toys". I want (some) games to be TOYS!

I think it is great that the current games market support games like Mario 3D World as well as games like TLOU, just as the current TV-market support shows like The Big Bang Theory and Mad Men.

 

[Prophecy2k]

The funniest thing about the recent Joel&Jack thread derailment attempt, is that all videogames are "glorified toys". I mean I'm a 30 year old man and I got no shame in admitting that.

Geez, you go to China for a week and get back to find that wackos have crawled out of the woodwork.

Back on topic:

PS4 and XB1 have an "exclusive" problem, and Forbes has a "poorly written editorial" problem. So the world is in "balance" once again (thanks Penello).

 

[MrFox]

Some games might be toys, but I'm pretty sure Journey is Art.

*drops a smoke bomb*

*runs away*

 

[Reggy72]

For me personally the problem of 1st party output is the lack of imaginative or lack of genuine risk within the titles we see today, the same can be applied to 3rd party games to a lesser extent. It seems that no matter what is available today you could have played in a less refined sense twenty years ago.

Sure the art of the story telling has improved over the years, and obvious graphically fidelity leaps have bought their own rewards and failures as we edge closer to reality in what we view, but how we interact with our software has not, we can trace the linage all they way back to the VCS, a button press does this, another does that, move the stick in this direction for an action.

I also feel that every genre has been explored to the point that familiarity with every new release for me is always a constant reminder of what I've played before and these days very few large budget releases have genuine moments of surprise.

I believe that this industry will stagnate to those of a certain age who've invested years of their time in this hobby ( I started gaming in 1978 on a Binatone Sports system) until we see a paradigm shift in how we interact with our entertainment, I do not know how and what will bring the next big shift as I lack the creative spark to make such suggestions, but the sooner it comes for me the better as seemingly both my current gen consoles sit idle whilst I play older games from my youth on legacy hardware.

 

[function]

Xbone and PS4 seem to have exclusives of broadly similar number and quality.

However, PS4 tends to have better versions of multiplatform games, and has sold 20 million while Xbone has sold only 10.

This leads me consider that PS4 doesn't actually have an 'exclusive' problem, while Xbone does.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

For me personally the problem of 1st party output is the lack of imaginative or lack of genuine risk within the titles we see today, the same can be applied to 3rd party games to a lesser extent. It seems that no matter what is available today you could have played in a less refined sense twenty years ago.

When you have budgets in the tens of millions of USD with an industry wide average of 70% of games not making back the money that was spent to develop them, you tend to play it a bit more conservatively. Hence, funding for AAA games these days are generally only greenlit for genres that have a proven track record or appear to be trending up.

If you completely muck up a AAA title it has the potential to completely destroy your company. History has been littered with examples of this. But more recently you only have to look at THQ with the uDraw Game Tablet. High AAA budget, took a risk on an unproven idea with with an accessory that appeared to have potential to trend up for a console with an incredibly large install base which liked quirky family friendly games. End result, company is no longer around despite having multiple well performing franchises.

In this day and age with the money and risk involved with AAA games, you can't afford to mess around too much with new ideas unless you are a console maker and only want something to showcase your console and are willing to take a massive loss on it.

Which leads us to...

I also feel that every genre has been explored to the point that familiarity with every new release for me is always a constant reminder of what I've played before and these days very few large budget releases have genuine moments of surprise.

I believe that this industry will stagnate to those of a certain age who've invested years of their time in this hobby ( I started gaming in 1978 on a Binatone Sports system) until we see a paradigm shift in how we interact with our entertainment, I do not know how and what will bring the next big shift as I lack the creative spark to make such suggestions, but the sooner it comes for me the better as seemingly both my current gen consoles sit idle whilst I play older games from my youth on legacy hardware.

Yes, as pointed out, you aren't going to see that from a AAA game unless it happens to copy a successful independent game that most console owners have likely never heard of (which will be more rare going forward as it is easier than ever for Indy developers to get their games onto the major consoles).

There are plenty of truly unique and sometimes revolutionary games being created in the indy scene. As well as keeping alive genres (SHMUPs, Turn based RPGs, etc.) that no longer receive the big budget treatment. All you have to do is look at the vibrant independent gaming scene on PC. Consoles get to see a small shadow of this, but it's getting better.

And even the big publishers are starting to get in on this with smaller budgets to back game developers with riskier titles like UBIsoft with Valiant Hearts, for example.

This is where you'll see new ideas in gaming or twists on established genres that make things fresh again. AAA games are all about trying to give people what they want. Independant and small budget games is where it is if you want to create a game that you hope people will want.

Regards,
SB

 

[Prophecy2k]

...
There are plenty of truly unique and sometimes revolutionary games being created in the indy scene. As well as keeping alive genres (SHMUPs, Turn based RPGs, etc.) that no longer receive the big budget treatment. All you have to do is look at the vibrant independent gaming scene on PC. Consoles get to see a small shadow of this, but it's getting better.

Steam and PC often gets heralded as the last bastion of gaming innovation in Indie titles, but honestly I scroll through the Steam store front and all I ever see these days are:

A) 2D pixel art platformer #999998
B) Open world survival game #999998
C) Minecraft clone #999998

It's almost like indies on PC are just as prone to playing copycat with the most succesful indie games as AAA devs/pubs. I feel as iff even the PC indie scene is getting stale nowadays.

 

[iroboto]

^^ a lot of developers just hoping to strike it rich. Small games have little effort and risk and for high ROI potential. A simple glance at mobile games showcase that well. Quite a few kickstarters have been decent successes like FTL.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

A lot of BS coming from someone who sounds like some kind of fanboy who is trying not to sound like one, or just a journalist that tries to write some random article to fill a space

Yeah, he now praises games like Heavy Rain and God of War. I would have liked to read a review from him of both in the past generation.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Steam and PC often gets heralded as the last bastion of gaming innovation in Indie titles, but honestly I scroll through the Steam store front and all I ever see these days are:

A) 2D pixel art platformer #999998
B) Open world survival game #999998
C) Minecraft clone #999998

It's almost like indies on PC are just as prone to playing copycat with the most succesful indie games as AAA devs/pubs. I feel as iff even the PC indie scene is getting stale nowadays.

Not everyone, even in indy land is willing to take risks on something innovative. There's always going to be copy cats. But even within genres that are overdone you see plenty of innovation if you look. Dark Descent is a very innovative take on a Rogue-Like Dungeon Crawler. Hand of Fate is a very polished independent effort mixing Deck Building (cards) with dungeon crawling and realtime third person action combat. Guild of Dungeoneering (actually on my Steam wishlist now) is something I saw from PAX East that features deck building, dungeon building, dungeon crawling, and no direct control over the hero. Dungeon of the Endless is dungeon crawling, mixed with rogue light, rpg light (character development), resource management, and a bit of tower defense. Sunless Sea, Gravity Ghost, Depth: Sharks vs. Divers, and a whole ton of titles I can't think of off the top of my head are all either completely innovative or a very unique take on an existing genre. Minecraft itself was a great example this. Hell, Five Nights at Freddies (I don't like the game but a lot of people do) is doing interesting things with the Horror genre.

Just because there are copies or just another token game in X genre, doesn't mean there aren't a ton of new and innovative games.

Regards,
SB

 

[Prophecy2k]

Not everyone, even in indy land is willing to take risks on something innovative. There's always going to be copy cats. But even within genres that are overdone you see plenty of innovation if you look. Dark Descent is a very innovative take on a Rogue-Like Dungeon Crawler. Hand of Fate is a very polished independent effort mixing Deck Building (cards) with dungeon crawling and realtime third person action combat. Guild of Dungeoneering (actually on my Steam wishlist now) is something I saw from PAX East that features deck building, dungeon building, dungeon crawling, and no direct control over the hero. Dungeon of the Endless is dungeon crawling, mixed with rogue light, rpg light (character development), resource management, and a bit of tower defense. Sunless Sea, Gravity Ghost, Depth: Sharks vs. Divers, and a whole ton of titles I can't think of off the top of my head are all either completely innovative or a very unique take on an existing genre. Minecraft itself was a great example this. Hell, Five Nights at Freddies (I don't like the game but a lot of people do) is doing interesting things with the Horror genre.

Just because there are copies or just another token game in X genre, doesn't mean there aren't a ton of new and innovative games.

Regards,
SB

This is kinda of what I mean though. Your list of supposedly "innovative" games comprises basically a list of game design features or mechinics from other popular games existing games and just mixes them together in a different permutation. That's hardly "innovation" in my mind, original sure, but not innovative. It's the same reason people complain that TLOU isn't innovative, when all it does iis mix TPS mechanics with item crafting, with stealth mechnics etc and calls it a day. The inidividual parts aren't new, the sum maybe however but to what extent?

Innovation for me is brand new gameplay mechanics altogether. Stuff like the Nemesis system in Shadows of Mordor.

If your game can be broken down to "genre A mixed with genre B mixed with genre C", it might feel new for the first five minutes, but it's not REAL innovation.

So I still disagree with you and maintain that even on PC, with Indies, true innovation is just as hard to find.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Innovation of that sort is so extremely rare that you can't claim AAA or Indie's are being innovative, or ever have been. I agree with Silent_Buddha's definition. Your typical AAA shooter is the same game as many other AAA shooters, just with mildly tweaked parameters. An innovative shooter adds something new, like the character-progression elements of Borderlands or cover mechanics of Gears/Uncharted. Which then get copied in subsequent titles. Within AAA games, the standard formulas are followed most closely.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I think we're at a point where gameplay could potentially diverge, we've got several large companies developing VR and AR headsets now. If these devices kick-off then it's very likely that we're going to start seeing many new game types coming out over the next few years.

Initially, of course, it'll be lots of driving games that don't really need much in the way of adaption, but I'm pretty sure that the gaming landscape will change if consumers buy into VR/AR. The change could be massive too, everyone can use wiiwands, so you could imagine your gran having a go at them. Just imagine how many people would be interested in playing a golf game where you don't need to walk and it's always sunny and warm?

How many first-parties are actually already working on these things? I can't help but think several must be at Sony, it would certainly explain the 'exclusive problem'.

 

[Arwin]

I hope so. I also hope that we've just seen that most companies have realised the early adopters want 'hardcore' stuff, but then if you want to keep expanding the market you also need to offer different experiences (though there is still increasing competition from tablets and smartphones in the 'casual' space).

I think most important thing that is being overlooked by people who say that exclusives and new titles are the only reason to upgrade to a new console is that the new console does a lot of peripheral stuff that still makes a huge day-to-day difference. The way games and firmware upgrade, party chat, download management, twitch/ustream broadcasting, sharing videos and screenshots, share play, etc. makes that even if, say, all games on PS4 were also released on PS3 visually nearly identically, the PS4 is a huge step up regardless. I still use the PS3 from time to time (especially for stuff like Sports Champions, which I still love), and the difference is pretty staggering.