PS3 firmware 2.80 avaiiable
- Thread starter patsu
- Start date
Could you check if this page (http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=143717&page=133
) is completely loading ?
I have never been able to read all comments on the BA forums because halfway it stops displaying.
That seems exactly the same behaviour that I’m also witnessing on my machine.
Source?
Again, I don't think you understand the browser landscape here. First of all, the iPhone has been out for two years, not one. It came out in 2007.
Second of all, Flash for the iPhone was completed by Adobe -- unsolicited and unpaid for by Apple -- a long time ago. Apple is refusing to implement it for business reasons only (it's a whole programming API that sidesteps their safeguards and business model).
See this article on why Apple isn't putting Flash on the iPhone: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/
Netfront is a web rendering engine and has absolutely nothing to do with Flash, which is a plugin in every single case. We should not confuse the issue.
Again, there's simply no valid argument to be made here against using Webkit even years ago, except for ignorance and poor decision making by Sony. I've seen you make several ridiculous claims without substantiation to defend it, which really should stop. If you are going to claim Adobe only develops Flash for platforms when people pay them to, you need to back that up because all evidence is to the contrary (eg, Adobe making Flash for the iPhone while Apple refuses to permit it). It's also contrary to common sense -- it's in Adobe's best interest to have Flash on as many devices as possible to make it more ubiquitous, and thus, more valuable.
From what I can tell, your reasoning for having Netfront is that's the only way Flash could be supported on the PS3, which is nonsense. You've also tried to claim that KHTML/Webkit was an unknown quantity, while even in 2003/2004/2005 -- well before the PS3 came out -- it was far more popular with both users in terms of install base, and in terms of big-name companies utilizing it in their products. None of these arguments against the use of Webkit hold any water.
Google the net
You'll find lot's of references to Adobe's inability or unwillingness to port the latest Flash SDK to other platforms. Wii browser ran (still run ?) Flash 7 at launch. PS3 browser too. Flash 9 was only added a few months ago, and that's for PS3 only.
As for more concrete proof (like a receipt
), I won't be able to provide you; but I can tell you as part of my job, I know one or two of my colleagues complain about Adobe Flash (They licensed an old version which is severely outdated now). Adobe is certainly not updating it for them.That's the outcome today after iPhone has become mainstream. I have heard a few stories about the negotiation between Apple and Flash, and for that matter Apple and Java (for iPhone). But I won't be able to tell on the forum.
As for iPhone being out by 2 years instead of 1, it doesn't really change my argument. Have an iPhone but gave it to my kid to play. Adobe won't port Flash to any non-mainstream platform out of their pocket. If Sony had adopted KHTML years ago with no further business work, they'd still be Flash-less today.
That's where our views split originally. Netfront is a product. It is more than just a HTML rendering engine. It handles popular wireless markup languages and also includes a Flash run-time:
http://www.access-company.com/products/internet_appliances/netfrontinternet/internet_appliances.html
(See under "Browser Engine" in architecture diagram).
They have to implement the web browser at least 9 months before PS3 comes out. KHTML is a regular open source project then and now. WebKit is the destination. Sony can skip KHTML and go WebKit today/tomorrow.
EDIT:
I don't know where to post this, but it's too cute not to post it. I guess it fits the iPhone reference.
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.ph...er=date_desc&includes[]=tags&includes[]=title
(It's sold out !)
I see we're going nowhere on this...
Adobe has proven more than willing to implement Flash on platforms with less capability and less penetration than the PS3/PSP.
KHTML/Webkit was well-adopted by big names and under active development and a superior rendering engine to NetFront years before the PS3 even launched.
Neither one of these points, which you continue clinging to, are reasonable or valid.
Since we're just going in circles and you are not willing to cite specific sources and instead relying on unsubstantiated hearsay about how you think Flash runtime development works -- which is contrary to established fact -- I'll just retire from the discussion.
Adobe has proven more than willing to implement Flash on platforms with less capability and less penetration than the PS3/PSP.
KHTML/Webkit was well-adopted by big names and under active development and a superior rendering engine to NetFront years before the PS3 even launched.
Neither one of these points, which you continue clinging to, are reasonable or valid.
Since we're just going in circles and you are not willing to cite specific sources and instead relying on unsubstantiated hearsay about how you think Flash runtime development works -- which is contrary to established fact -- I'll just retire from the discussion.
I am just saying someone must have paid for it. In Wii's case, it's paid for by the consumers and Nintendo. In PS3/PSP's case, Sony and ACCESS paid for it. In iPhone case, Adobe may be willing to invest their own resources, but it's the exception.
... but it does not provide a complete web browsing experience.
Flash is not handled. So Sony either has to put together a team to port KHTML, and start a parallel Flash work under the tight time frame. Or talk to ACCESS who has both working for small devices, and port it over together. It doesn't stop ACCESS or Sony from improving the web rendering further (like... porting to WebKit later ?)
Besides, years ago, they all fared pretty badly in ACID3 scores.
Why not ? You have not shown Adobe is willing to port Flash 10 to Wii and PS3 for free. I am sure they will take it.
Reality has proved otherwise.
You only repeated the iPhone case which is an exception because it's extremely popular and Adobe is very keen in that market (Otherwise, MS Silverlight will try to claim that space).
Adobe's Linux i386 flash track record is even spotty.
Late to the discussion but I have to ask, what pages current PS3 browser cannot render so we want webkit based browser instead? I don't browse much so sorry for my ignorance. But it seems to work decent enough for the pages I have seen, as far as rendering engine goes.
Late to the discussion but I have to ask, what pages current PS3 browser cannot render so we want webkit based browser instead? I don't browse much so sorry for my ignorance. But it seems to work decent enough for the pages I have seen, as far as rendering engine goes.
On PPC platforms ? I think its non-Windows platforms in general. Flash on Mac is garbage as well.
I´ll subscribe to this. Don´t Sony have any usability experts worth their name? The menus are clumsy, the interface is slow and unresponsive, damn even the browser in the PSP has a more distinct and responsive interface IMO.
Sure some additional memory would help when having multiple pages open, but I think there are more optimisations to be done, and yeah the GUI wouldn´t suffer from a total overhaul.
Well I'm for one not complaining about the PS3's Browser's user interface simply because I'm more than happy with it. I only really need bookmarks and they're easily accessible (and added) with Select. For almost everything there's a handy key shortcut (open in new window by keeping the x button pressed which is also useful for things that the PS3 doesn't normally show properly, like the DIV issue discussed earlier), closing an existing window with keeping the circle button pressed. And I love all the zooming and scrolling options so much that I really prefer using the sixaxis over mouse and keyboard for the Browser.
My only complaints are the text-input which could still be a fair bit better:
- shift-backspace deletes everything which I hate
- there's no undo
- there's a text limit that shouldn't have to be there
- being able to straight into a text field if you use a keyboard in 720p resolution. It IS available in 1080 modes (and has been for over a year?) which makes it even more annoying.
Other than that though, I have no complaints on the UI front. On the other hand, every improvement to the renderer is always welcome. I can do most things so I'm happy enough (even my company's Outlook Web Access Light works so I can actually access my email on the thing just fine) but every little bit they can improve I'll appreciate.
My only complaints are the text-input which could still be a fair bit better:
- shift-backspace deletes everything which I hate
- there's no undo
- there's a text limit that shouldn't have to be there
- being able to straight into a text field if you use a keyboard in 720p resolution. It IS available in 1080 modes (and has been for over a year?) which makes it even more annoying.
Other than that though, I have no complaints on the UI front. On the other hand, every improvement to the renderer is always welcome. I can do most things so I'm happy enough (even my company's Outlook Web Access Light works so I can actually access my email on the thing just fine) but every little bit they can improve I'll appreciate.
I didn´t know some of the short-cuts you mentioned simply because the information about them isn´t easily accessable. The zoom function is OK.
You should really get the clip-on keyboard it´s really handy if you brows a lot using the controller. And yeah a 1080p screen isn´t bad either.
I am a bit surprised though that you don´t have any complaints about the responsiveness, I don´t know how many times I´ve had to repeat pressing the R1 and R2 buttons when browsing.
How is the interface unresponsive? In my PS3 the browser menus are responsive and fast as can be! There's no lag choosing menu items, nor any waiting for menus to load. The experience is instant.
I'm quite happy with the PS3 browser. It's not perfect, but for someting that's primarily meant to be controlled with the sixaxis or the BR remote, it's quite user friendly.
One thing they couls improve is the bookmark sorting (or lack of). There's no way to group them, or even put them in alphabetical order, they always show the last visited on top, oldest bottom.
Am I the only one who have experienced missed L1, L2, R1, R2 clicks, slow video loads/unloads etc. ?
I haven´t tried using the remote, may be helpful for video control.
I think I may know what's the matter with the L1/R2 clicks - all buttons on the sixaxis are analog. It may well be that they are reading them in analog mode and picked a threshold so that if you just accidentally tap a button nothing happens, so you have to press the buttons a bit more firm. Could you try and see if that helps?
As it happens I just got the clip on. It's ok, but if I type anything more than a few lines I think I'll be sticking to the DiNovo ... also I think the pointer functionality is currently pretty much useless, but that's partly because of the way they've implemented it I think. There's probably room for improvement in software. I don't know - the thing doesn't seem to be designed as well as some other things have. The location for me above is fine, and the user interface actually takes it into account pretty well, showing an icon when you switch it on or switch to pointer mode, etc. But right now for instance I'm disappointed that the arrow keys work the way they do now - if there had been anything like a separate down/up button I could have done most of the stuff with just the clip-on (ie without the sixaxis altogether) but right now that's still a bit clumsy.
It's not bad though, but right now I think it's not worth the asking price. Maybe something more in the range of 20 euros rather than 40.
Mind you, just as a keypad I think it works pretty well.
As it happens I just got the clip on. It's ok, but if I type anything more than a few lines I think I'll be sticking to the DiNovo ... also I think the pointer functionality is currently pretty much useless, but that's partly because of the way they've implemented it I think. There's probably room for improvement in software. I don't know - the thing doesn't seem to be designed as well as some other things have. The location for me above is fine, and the user interface actually takes it into account pretty well, showing an icon when you switch it on or switch to pointer mode, etc. But right now for instance I'm disappointed that the arrow keys work the way they do now - if there had been anything like a separate down/up button I could have done most of the stuff with just the clip-on (ie without the sixaxis altogether) but right now that's still a bit clumsy.
It's not bad though, but right now I think it's not worth the asking price. Maybe something more in the range of 20 euros rather than 40.
Mind you, just as a keypad I think it works pretty well.
upnorthsox
Veteran
I have to agree with the bolded and it's my only real complaint, I think if they gave you the option to turn off the "scroll to next active field" feature and instead let you have a more mouse like control it'd be fine.
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