PS2 sales slowing and slowing ....

[Vince]

Sony is slowing and slowing..

When Sony stops selling 3 year old PS2's @ $199 that are still selling more than 2X the competition, then try to talk. Untill then, they're still utterly raping the gaming industry. Look at a comparason to PSOne at a comparable point in it's lifetime, and you'll see that not only is PS2 still ahead of PSOne at a comparable point in it's life, but it's been at a substancially higher pricepoint.

Your thinking is convoluted. I'm sure Sony is quacking in their proverbial boots now that the Cube is at $99, for the first time the PSOne isn't outselling the competition's new systems. Poor Sony....

Ohh, and as per your comment in the locked thread directed towards the "some Sony Guy" - if that's so, than what kinda boy are you?

actually chap thats billions . Ask vince , paul and panja , they like to post the amount sony is spending as if it means anything but more money they need to make back

What's scary is that Chap's thinking can be explained due to his pre-puberal age; you on the otherhand, have no excuse in saying something as obtuse as, "as if it [Investment] means anything but more money they need to make back." Seriously, there is nothing I can say to you - it's that hopeless.

 

[Sonic]

Regarding PS3, Sony damn well needs to make that investment back that they put into CELL. The thing is, they'll have a bunch of their other electronics stuff utilizing it to help make that back and then some. Sony will return to profitability, it's only a matter of when and how. It's not their doom and it won't be for a long time. They have to worry about their current financial status and losing some money. It's often large corporations lose a little money, especially during heavy R&D time, only to reap the benefits in the long run. Sony is looking for long term profitability and financial status by streamlining a major portion of its business with CELL based technology. TV's, DVD players, audio equipment, it all gets a piece of the pie and helps turn Sony around.

Something tells me Sony will sell a lot more units this holiday season then it has for the rest fo the year, but isn't that THE trend in the industry and a general rule of thumb?

Sony does have a lot to fear, but it'snot like the company is sitting there shaking in its britches, it does something about it.

More powerful hardware has been shining or have you not been playing the excellent games on those systems? Sales have been pretty good for both, but that's what you get when you have one console that has been around a year earlier, gained a huge amount of potential, ran with it, and retained its #1 position. Nintendo and MS didn't come in competing with Sony, they were competing with each other for the #2 spot and still are whether MS wants to admit it or not.

 

[Vince]

Is it true?

Sony shipped more PS2's in this ONE "fallen" quarter than Microsoft did in it's first EIGHTEEN months with XBox...

Yes Chap, Sony is so f-ed, it's not even funny. Their sliding, sliding on ice baby, down towards mere normalcy on the highest pricepoint yet maintained for this length.

 

[marconelly!]

Sony will return to profitability, it's only a matter of when and how

They actually are making profit, just less than last year.

 

[chaphack]

. The thing is, they'll have a bunch of their other electronics stuff utilizing it to help make that back and then some. Sony will return to profitability

I am always thinking, just because Sony !"might"! use Cell in their other stuff, why is it good for their profits? You certainly DO NOT needa Cell CPU in a TV to show pictures. You also DO NOT needa Cell cpu to have a connected home. Conversely, adding one extra Cell might just raise the price over competitiors "Cell-less" solution...

Sony might make the cash from software applications and services from Cell stuff, but are regular people hot enough to jump on the internet BB-or-whacha thingie, and help Sony earn back their risky investements?

Cell might just staya bettar in the PS3, and if Cell is REALLY good, CPUs and Servers related side of things.

Home electronics........ hmmmmmmmm.... :? Tough call. Are they even trying to tie up big brothers like Samsung and Panasonic etc? You know, Cell might just seem to be yet another hohoho-solo Sony i-can-do-it-all-along attempt.

 

[chaphack]

oh! just recall, didnt Sony lamented on how broadband acceptance + technology, is not moving as hot as they predicted?

Now, not only, have they to "persuade" regular users to "upgrade" to a flashy tech-lifestyle, but also to "hope" for the best in things that are out of their control.

Big task in seems for KK and his matrix dreams.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I'm no Cell expert, but i have the impression that it is not mere broadband processor, but can in fact be used for various tasks due to its programmability.

TV's do have processors inside, they've had them for years.
As have DVD players/recorders, CD players, VCR's, AV receivers, PDA's, cellphones, MP3 players, digital cameras, digital video cameras...

A device wouldn't have to be 'Broadband rready' to include a variant of a Cell processor

 

[Vince]

oh! just recall, didnt Sony lamented on how broadband acceptance + technology, is not moving as hot as they predicted?

Um, no? But, kinda interesting, last I heard Sony (among others) was funding research into high speed intercontinential data transmission. I think they're funded program just set new Trans-Atlantic records out of UofWashington and UofIllinois I believe.

Now, not only, have they to "persuade" regular users to "upgrade" to a flashy tech-lifestyle, but also to "hope" for the best in things that are out of their control.

Kinda like how "they" have to persuade consumers to buy ANY new product at all. I mean, I'm sitting here pondering why on earth I'm not using my parents furnature, their Black & White TVs and my gramp's ModelT....

You see Chaps, in the marketplace such as Sony's, you suceed by offering a product that has added intrinsic value to the customer over the competition and what he already has. Be this the Sony name, or their style, or an interconnected Cell distibution fabric - it doesn't matter.

This is the type of "fringe" product that has historically made Sony the household name it is today. If it was the Walkman, or the Trinitron, or the CD - Cell is just another. And when you look at the demogrpahics of whose spending in the Western World today, you see that the people who actually spend (eg. not you) are the people who: (a) want these "fringe" product, (b) will sacrifice money for convinence.

I am always thinking, just because Sony !"might"! use Cell in their other stuff, why is it good for their profits? You certainly DO NOT needa Cell CPU in a TV to show pictures. You also DO NOT needa Cell cpu to have a connected home. Conversely, adding one extra Cell might just raise the price over competitiors "Cell-less" solution...

It's good for the company because you're not funneling as much of that $8Billion a year to 3rd parties to make ICs that you can yourself in your pre-established infastructure needed for SCE.

You don't "needa" many of the features in PS2 either (eg. backwards compatability, DVD playing, CD playing) but what you fail to understand is that it creates added value to the consumer. Sony is an extravogant brandname, people expect this type of thing. People want pervasive computing, there isn't a damn home electronics company out there that's not talking about doing something similar, albeit on a smaller scale. Shit, I saw a Philips presentation once that had Cell in it under the connected home of the future.

Sony might make the cash from software applications and services from Cell stuff, but are regular people hot enough to jump on the internet BB-or-whacha thingie, and help Sony earn back their risky investements?

You do realize, that even if the adoption of people who use Cell broadband fabric to buy/move Sony digital media is small - they basically make pure profit since the overhead is static and negligable. You see what Microsoft is doing with software... that's what this is, just on a smaller scale. Sony has the digitized media (which is an enormous collection as they control much of Movie/TV and some Music) already, to make 1 digital copy or 50,000 is irrlevant.

Home electronics........ hmmmmmmmm.... Tough call. Are they even trying to tie up big brothers like Samsung and Panasonic etc? You know, Cell might just seem to be yet another hohoho-solo Sony i-can-do-it-all-along attempt.

Sony is a... < gasp > Home electronics manufacturer. And, what amuses me even more is when people like yourself jump on this, "hohoho-solo Sony i-can-do-it-all-along" bandwagon of hate when there was just a thread on how Sony is working with Intel and 14 seconds in google finds:

http://archive.infoworld.com/article/03/07/01/HNcon_1.html?development[/url]]Sony, Royal Philips Electronics and Matsushita, which makes the Panasonic brand, are among the founding members of the CE Linux Forum (CELF), which was announced Tuesday. Its goals include defining the technical requirements that will make Linux more suitable for consumer devices and promoting wider use of the OS in the consumer electronics industry, according to a joint statement....

The other members of the group are Toshiba, Hitachi, NEC, Samsung, and Sharp. IBM is also "pursuing membership in the group" and plans to be an active participant, according to the CELF statement. IBM couldn't immediately be reached for comment early Tuesday.

If you're going to bitch about going "hohoho.. solo" why don't I hear you bitching about Microsoft's empire of propietary products that get shoved down everyone throat. Or Nintendo for just pissing in the wind?

Big task in seems for KK and his matrix dreams. :?

Um, how about you reserve judgement on who many would consider the father of the mainstream console untill you can write a frickin' coherent sentance?

 

[Lazy8s]

Vince:

you on the otherhand, have no excuse in saying something as obtuse as, "as if it [Investment] means anything but more money they need to make back." Seriously, there is nothing I can say to you - it's that hopeless.

Considering that huge spending can mean anything from an ambitiously advanced design to an inflated budget for salvaging a lemon of a project, the only thing that's conclusive from the size of the investment at this point is that it's money that needs to be made back. Talent is an enabler for potential success at least as much as money is.

 

[Vince]

Considering that huge spending can mean anything from an ambitiously advanced design to an inflated budget for salvaging a lemon of a project, the only thing that's conclusive from the size of the investment at this point is that it's money that needs to be made back. Talent is an enabler for potential success at least as much as money is.

The same can be said about any R&D investment by a bleeding-edge company. That is the very nature of research, which is forward looking into the future, thus by very definition is uncertain.

This is like common sense, forget even talking about the first day of Economics Class.

What you're saying is like, Buying an automobile instead of using my proven horse is a risk. You need an enormous upfront cost to purchase it, and then there is fuel and maitenance and we can't say for sure it'll out preform the horse.... I think you get the point.

Especially with the bulk of the $8Billion which is in lithography and fab infastructure that isn't tied to any one architecture.

 

[chaphack]

But, kinda interesting, last I heard Sony (among others) was funding research into high speed intercontinential data transmission. I think they're funded program just set new Trans-Atlantic records out of UofWashington and UofIllinois I believe.

i think funding and reality is a bit different. no? BB acceptance + technology are not hohoho enough

Kinda like how "they" have to persuade consumers to buy ANY new product at all. I mean, I'm sitting here pondering why on earth I'm not using my parents furnature, their Black & White TVs and my gramp's ModelT....

i think TVs are TVs. Cell Net TVs on the other hand...

You see Chaps, in the marketplace such as Sony's, you suceed by offering a product that has added intrinsic value to the customer over the competition and what he already has.

Funny you said that, but Sony stuffs are usually priced higher and/or offer less value than competition.

If it was the Walkman, or the Trinitron, or the CD - Cell is just another.

I doubt Cell be as hot as Walkman or CD. Trinitron is good tube technology but nothing spectacular, at least not as the other 2.

And when you look at the demogrpahics of whose spending in the Western World today, you see that the people who actually spend (eg. not you) are the people who: (a) want these "fringe" product, (b) will sacrifice money for convinence.

How many is many? Last topic iirc, HDTV are still hohohum, even though such TVs are around for some time and the prices are a-o-k. Many convergent wanabe electronic stuff have come and go, it seems to me.

It's good for the company because you're not funneling as much of that $8Billion a year to 3rd parties to make ICs that you can yourself in your pre-established infastructure needed for SCE.

yeay man, thats good to do inhouse stuff. but me more think bout the software and applications side of things. The acceptance, the take up rate, the Yeay-Man-Me-Going-Cell-Today! guy.

You don't "needa" many of the features in PS2 either (eg. backwards compatability, DVD playing, CD playing) but what you fail to understand is that it creates added value to the consumer.

Added value is cool and all(and more pricey!), but then again, you have the HDTV scenario....Cell TV != PS3, so i am sure it will cost "added" for yeay values.

Sony is an extravogant brandname, people expect this type of thing.

I dunno...Sony is just Sony, yeay know another electronic guy in town? Well they do nice designs but the price are tad higher in many cases.

Shit, I saw a Philips presentation once that had Cell in it under the connected home of the future.

Really!!!???? i needa see that!

they basically make pure profit since the overhead is static and negligable.

They still have to setup the softwares and broadband architectures and the likes.

You see what Microsoft is doing with software... that's what this is, just on a smaller scale.

MS have come a loong way. Sony is just starting.

which is an enormous collection as they control much of Movie/TV and some Music

Much? Really? Yeay, me really asking. What the latest tiff and uff on Sony Studios? Is it comparably hot hot hot?

to make 1 digital copy or 50,000 is irrlevant.

To stream 1 instead of 50000 is relevant.

when there was just a thread on how Sony is working with Intel

They need focusssss.

14 seconds in google finds

Cool then. I hope they speed up things or something, coz Cell has so far sounded like some solo hack job.

Um, how about you reserve judgement on who many would consider the father of the mainstream console untill you can write a frickin' coherent sentance?

Me just outputting what me thoughts are. Need to know more....

 

[gmoran]

But this whole topic is such a troll anyway. I mean PS2 sales, according to chaphack, are not just reduced in comparison to the previous year, they are "slowing and slowing"; by which we are led (deliberately misled?) to believe they are decelerating. While his other comments ("chance for the more powerful hardwares to shine?") give rise to the hope that PS2 sales may be overtaken by his console of choice (presumably X-box).

The truth is less dramatic, an overpriced PS2 has not sold as well this year as it had last, while still outselling its contemporaries by huge margins.

The UK market probably gives a good insight: recent cuts to the NGC price saw a 10 times increase in sales, which saw it marginally outselling the X-box for the first time in months; but still being outsold by the PS2 by four to one (which itself had a price cut in September).

 

[London Geezer]

can anyone arrange an English course for Chap? his "hohohoBZZZZ" are getting to my head...
i mean, sometimes he has almost-good points, but he just cannot be taken seriously like this...


and by the way, to add something to this thread:

yawn....more "my dick is bigger than yours" discussions...

 

[rabidrabbit]

Is it just me, or do others have this Jar Jar Binks' sounding voice in their head when reading chaps' posts.

 

[notAFanB]

i think funding and reality is a bit different. no? BB acceptance + technology are not hohoho enough

reality doesn't just 'happen' around you, if anything it advances because of R&D and 'that' requires funding.

i think TVs are TVs. Cell Net TVs on the other hand...

the TV is evolving, net TV is just one possible way it could go.

Funny you said that, but Sony stuffs are usually priced higher and/or offer less value than competition.

ahahahahahaha ....er maybe.

yeay man, thats good to do inhouse stuff. but me more think bout the software and applications side of things. The acceptance, the take up rate, the Yeay-Man-Me-Going-Cell-Today! guy.

an that affects the fact that they are reaping hte befits of inhouse production how exactly.

I dunno...Sony is just Sony, yeay know another electronic guy in town? Well they do nice designs but the price are tad higher in many cases.

the mere fact that you know the brand speaks volumes.

They still have to setup the softwares and broadband architectures and the likes.

don't forget that hae to pay staff to come up with this stuff, oh and attempt to market the base unit.

MS have come a loong way. Sony is just starting.

huh? what? oh u mean the whole integration thing. well everyones giving it a shot,so why not?

They need focusssss.

it's called diversifying, again the results should be had before sweeping critisms are made.

Me just outputting what me thoughts are. Need to know more....

 

[chaphack]

reality doesn't just 'happen' around you, if anything it advances because of R&D and 'that' requires funding.

so when is it going to "happen"?

the TV is evolving, net TV is just one possible way it could go

HDTV is but smaller step in evolution, and it is still not "happening".

ahahahahahaha ....er maybe.

go check your local retailers and online pricelist.

an that affects the fact that they are reaping hte befits of inhouse production how exactly.

like say, err, inhouse production is just one part of the benefits vs other costs?

the mere fact that you know the brand speaks volumes.

but Sony is not the only known brand around. and imho, it is quite negative to be known as the higher priced dude. no surprises when we have seen Samsung and Panasonic snapping up at Sony market.

don't forget that hae to pay staff to come up with this stuff, oh and attempt to market the base unit.

yuppers. more cost to take into consideration.

it's called diversifying, again the results should be had before sweeping critisms are made.

and the results had Sony is struggling.

 

[notAFanB]

*double post*

 

[notAFanB]

*triple post my bad*

 

[notAFanB]

so when is it going to "happen"?

I don't know.

HDTV is but smaller step in evolution, and it is still not "happening".

then we have a different definition of 'happening'. HDTV is out, it works and conforment(well enough not to fragment anything).

go check your local retailers and online pricelist.

I don't have to do I? the market buys Sony products at an non-insignificant volume. I realise you think they are shoddy and overpriced, and that is valid.

however many apparently still buy their products so there must be some value that they find (and am willing to pay for) in their purchase. Of course we 'could' label them conformed/ill-informed sheep but that ends the discussion right there.

yeay man, thats good to do inhouse stuff. but me more think bout the software and applications side of things. The acceptance, the take up rate, the Yeay-Man-Me-Going-Cell-Today! guy.

an that affects the fact that they are reaping hte befits of inhouse production how exactly.

like say, err, inhouse production is just one part of the benefits vs other costs?

no that puts the benefits of in-house dev in perspective with the overall picture. again hows does that affect the benefits reaped from in house production?

but Sony is not the only known brand around. and imho, it is quite negative to be known as the higher priced dude. no surprises when we have seen Samsung and Panasonic snapping up at Sony market.

you misunderstand my reply, it's not that Sony is the leading 'brand' nor that the brand is associated with uber HQ products.

it's simply that they are an established Brand and bar maybe associativty disasters, this tends to be a good thing.

and the results had Sony is struggling.

They need focusssss.

it's called diversifying, again the results should be had before sweeping critisms are made.

 

[Vince]

and the results had Sony is struggling.

Dude, they're a frickin manufacturing company. For such a company with that corperate structure, they're hardly struggling - if anything they're one of the only such companies that's attempting to break free from the sheer volume/cost basis game.

Cool then. I hope they speed up things or something, coz Cell has so far sounded like some solo hack job.

What?!? How? You've freely admitted to not understanding WTF they're talking about (ergo have Panajev do a write-up). And even if we assume that you have no idea what you're talking about, you still screwed up as it's a "three-way hack job" since IBM and Toshiba are sinking equal shares into the architectural development. This comment, comming from you, has about as much weight behind it as if you were talking about preforming a triple-bypass.

99% of your comments are so illogical or on the linguistic level of a 6th grader. So, yes you may be venting ideas and that's acceptable by me. It's also acceptable for me to remind you that your comments are causing reader's sensory neurons to commit ritualistic suicide.