Preferred Game Playing Apparatus [kbm vs controller] and Push towards 60fps *spawn*

[djskribbles]

I think we're already starting to see more 60fps games on console in the past decade. Battlefield moved to 60fps last gen, plus more and more games are doing the split 30fps SP / 60fps MP approach. And there are quite a few games that have an unlocked framerate.

A large reason why people game on PC is because you can play at 60fps, and I'm sure game developers are aware of this. If you've followed Destiny 2, a large part of the community were hoping for 60fps on console, and I'm sure Bungie were flooded with complaints about how it's 30fps on console.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I think we're already starting to see more 60fps games on console in the past decade. Battlefield moved to 60fps last gen, plus more and more games are doing the split 30fps SP / 60fps MP approach. And there are quite a few games that have an unlocked framerate.

A large reason why people game on PC is because you can play at 60fps, and I'm sure game developers are aware of this. If you've followed Destiny 2, a large part of the community were hoping for 60fps on console, and I'm sure Bungie were flooded with complaints about how it's 30fps on console.

That's a big reason but not the only one. Watch some of Jesse Cox's playthrough of Horizon: Zero Dawn (he's absolutely in love with the game) where he sometimes gets extremely angry at having to use a console controller and curses the PS4 and having to use a console controller to play it. But he keeps playing it because he loves the game so much that he's willing to endure the torture (to him) of having to use a console controller.

I'm the same way. I tolerate console controllers if I have to, but would prefer to not have to use it in the majority of games.

Regards,
SB

 

[djskribbles]

That's a big reason but not the only one. Watch some of Jesse Cox's playthrough of Horizon: Zero Dawn (he's absolutely in love with the game) where he constantly curses the PS4 and having to use a console controller to play it. But he keeps playing it because he loves the game so much that he's willing to endure the torture (to him) of having to use a console controller.

I'm the same way. I tolerate console controllers if I have to, but would prefer to not have to use it in the majority of games.

Regards,
SB

For shooters maybe, but I can honestly say that I've never seen a PC gamer complain about a controller for any other type of game. I've watched dozens of PC players play Horizon on twitch, and not a single one complained about the controller. Every complaint was about the framerate. Not that it was bad per se, just that they wish that it was on PC so they could play at 60fps.

Not saying there aren't people out there that can't stand playing on a controller, but I'm pretty sure that percentage of people is minuscule compared to the amount of PC gamers who NEED 60fps.

 

[djskribbles]

I've even seen a lot of PC gamers play 3rd person action games on controller. I can't even imagine playing something like Nioh, NieR, Ninja Gaiden, DMC, Bayonetta etc., on a kb/m. Fighting games as well.

 

[djskribbles]

I didn't say all games, I said more 60fps games. We're already starting to see more 60fps games, and some 60fps games look incredible, even on console. Battlefront/BF1 are some of the best looking games and they're 60fps.

Plus probably not all games are going to be native 4K. We're probably going to see a lot of dynamic res or CBR next gen on console, and I welcome that with open arms if that means we'll see more 60fps games.

Not that I despise 30fps, but as we're getting to these insane high resolutions, I think the trade off is worth it.

 

[Rangers]

I've even seen a lot of PC gamers play 3rd person action games on controller. I can't even imagine playing something like Nioh, NieR, Ninja Gaiden, DMC, Bayonetta etc., on a kb/m. Fighting games as well.

Yeah, OT. and little mentioned, but controllers are superior to m/kb for many if not most genres. Imagine playing a 3rd person beat em up like Batman on m/kb. Or Madden football or something. Or fighting games. Controller is more natural/superior in all those cases. m/kb is better for FPS and RTS, and of course anything super complex like MMORPG's. that's about it IMO.

But the general narrative is m/kb is objectively better across the board. No it's not better, arguably inferior in more genres.

 

[Rangers]

I think having a Zen in there would justify the $499 tag. You'd have a noticeable upgrade in cpu allowing for higher frame rates and it would pair well with the gpu and ram upgrade. missed opportunity.

Destiny 2 wouldn't run at 60 FPS on XBX if it had 16 core 4.5 ghz Turbo Zen...

In other words it's not the CPU it's compatibility factors. You simply cant have one Xbox version of Destiny run at 60 FPS and the others not, and they play together, at least not without great hassle and not at all in MP. At least with GPU it's easier to scale.

If you had exclusive Scorpio games, maybe Zen made sense. Would you want Zen in a vacuum? Of course...and I suppose I can agree maybe it should be there at 499.

 

[RobertR1]

Destiny 2 wouldn't run at 60 FPS on XBX if it had 16 core 4.5 ghz Turbo Zen...

In other words it's not the CPU it's compatibility factors. You simply cant have one Xbox version of Destiny run at 60 FPS and the others not, and they play together, at least not without great hassle and not at all in MP. At least with GPU it's easier to scale.

If you had exclusive Scorpio games, maybe Zen made sense. Would you want Zen in a vacuum? Of course...and I suppose I can agree maybe it should be there at 499.

To that, I'd say the no 1 software company in the world can build tools that help developers take advantage of Zen while being backwards compatible.

I'm sure they are differences in the xb1 and xb1x architecture that required a revamp of tools for making adoption easier. The same could be said of Zen. To me, there is just an obvious weakness in the overall system with the CPU.

Ultimately, I'll wait for end user and review impressions with the final hardware when launched but this went from a pre order to wait and see due to the launch price.

 

[Nisaaru]

The point was that 60FPS isn't just a CPU/GPU technology decision but a compatibility decision for any *multiplayer* titles as running 30FPS XB1 players vs. 60FPS Scorpio would just cause trouble, the social kind and not the technical you only seem to think about.

 

[RobertR1]

The point was that 60FPS isn't just a CPU/GPU technology decision but a compatibility decision for any *multiplayer* titles as running 30FPS XB1 players vs. 60FPS Scorpio would just cause trouble, the social kind and not the technical you only seem to think about.

We need to get over this hurdle if we're going to have mid gen upgrade cycles successfully. There is no "trouble" on the PC where people have all sorts of ranges when it comes to graphical options and display speeds.

If you're going to expect people to fork over cash, you need to accept that there will be a difference in player experience.

Better draw distance, more stable frame rate, better clarity are also advantages so where do you draw the line?

By this token, they shouldn't do cross play either.

 

[Jay]

We need to get over this hurdle if we're going to have mid gen upgrade cycles successfully. There is no "trouble" on the PC where people have all sorts of ranges when it comes to graphical options and display speeds.

If you're going to expect people to fork over cash, you need to accept that there will be a difference in player experience.

Better draw distance, more stable frame rate, better clarity are also advantages so where do you draw the line?

By this token, they shouldn't do cross play either.

This was brought up recently (post destiny 2 reveal), would need to search for the thread but it went on for a few pages, with quotes at the time from MS people.
But there is a common thought that console mp should run at the same frame rate. Regardless what happens in pc land.

MS has said that it's up to dev's, but Shannon loftus said that she doesn't expect any dev's to actually do it.
So it's not necessarily about if the console is capable of it or not.

We would need to hear from Bungie why the 1X is limited to 30 as they was open enough to say the 4pro cpu wasn't powerful enough to run it at 60.
Maybe it's the CPU, or maybe they just decided not to have an outlier.

Edit: Easily found - Remembered I kept spelling bungie some messed up way
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/mixed-fps-in-console-games-spawn.60112/

 

[tuna]

That's a big reason but not the only one. Watch some of Jesse Cox's playthrough of Horizon: Zero Dawn (he's absolutely in love with the game) where he sometimes gets extremely angry at having to use a console controller and curses the PS4 and having to use a console controller to play it. But he keeps playing it because he loves the game so much that he's willing to endure the torture (to him) of having to use a console controller.

How do you set up third-person control on Mouse-Keyboard? If you have WASD, do you strafe on A and D?

 

[BRiT]

How do you set up third-person control on Mouse-Keyboard? If you have WASD, do you strafe on A and D?

Typically the same way as on first-person games, sometimes the mouse is for aiming and turning, or you have Q and E for turning and mouse is only for aiming, or sometimes mouse-click is where your player moves (Diablo style).

 

[Clukos]

RTS, FPS, Mobas, MMOs: Keyboard/Mouse (ideally mechanical switches)
Third person games in general (shooters, exploration, platforming, action): Gamepad
Racing games: Racing wheel, if not possible, gamepad

That's it for me.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I've even seen a lot of PC gamers play 3rd person action games on controller. I can't even imagine playing something like Nioh, NieR, Ninja Gaiden, DMC, Bayonetta etc., on a kb/m. Fighting games as well.

A decent keyboad (without the mouse of course) is actually a very good way to play fighting games. I still prefer a quality arcade stick, but that is entirely due to the feeling of authenticity it brings.

 

[Nesh]

A decent keyboad (without the mouse of course) is actually a very good way to play fighting games. I still prefer a quality arcade stick, but that is entirely due to the feeling of authenticity it brings.

I have the impression that in some areas a decent keyboard is much better than a controller and in some areas better than an arcade stick