PC cooling

[Scott_Arm]

Cool video. Nice experiment. Ducting works well. Not surprising. I've always wondered why the pc market hasn't tried to move to cases that have ducting options. Now that they have viable riser cables to adjust gpu positioning, there should be some kind of options.

The other thing I've wondered about is having cases with accessories to mount radiators externally. CPU aios are preatty common where most gpus are air cooled. If you put your cpu rad on the intake, you get a cool cpu but the heat is dumped back into the case which heats the gpu and everything else. If you put the rad on the exhaust all of that gpu heat is running through the rad. Just having front to back airflow in the case to handle the gpu and motherboard, and then an externally mounted radiator for the cpu would be nice because cpu would be cooled from ambient air and the heat would just go into your room as any exhaust does. Option to mount both cpu and gpu rads would be even better.

 

[orangpelupa]

I missed it or the youtuber ignores other stuff that are normally being cooled by stray airflow?

 

[Scott_Arm]

I missed it or the youtuber ignores other stuff that are normally being cooled by stray airflow?

He still has two fans for the case ventilation. Just has ducts for the two hottest parts.

 

[Pressure]

A lot of the airflow is going to waste by the loose fit. He should at least have put some tape around to seal it properly and maintain positive pressure.

Apple have been "compartmentalising" their computers since the Power Mac G5 from 2003.

 

[Scott_Arm]

@Pressure I thought in the vid he said he used double-side tape, but I may be wrong.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

A lot of the airflow is going to waste by the loose fit. He should at least have put some tape around to seal it properly and maintain positive pressure.

Apple have been "compartmentalising" their computers since the Power Mac G5 from 2003.

View attachment 9477

That's nothing new for the professional workstation market. For example, Sun Microsystems, Dell, HP, etc. were doing this all the way back in the 90's for more expensive PC systems for professional workstation (as opposed to commercial business/office) and light server (not rackmount) use.

When I was still doing off season work recycling computer parts, I used to save the Sun Microsystems shells for use in home. They had lots of nice features (build quality, cooling, assembly, etc.) that made them ideal for PC use with some slight modifications (getting off the shelf PC parts to fit could get interesting. ).

But Scott does bring up a point, considering this is fairly common for OEM builds for professional workstations, why hasn't it migrated to the upper tier of enthusiast gaming systems? I mean sure those workstations used to go for 5k+ USD (or was it the 10k+ USD systems that came with the more server style ducted and directed cooling? My memory is a bit hazy), but upper end gaming enthusiasts will spend that and more.

Regards,
SB

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's nothing new for the professional workstation market. For example, Sun Microsystems, Dell, HP, etc. were doing this all the way back in the 90's for more expensive PC systems for professional workstation (as opposed to commercial business/office) and light server (not rackmount) use.

When I was still doing off season work recycling computer parts, I used to save the Sun Microsystems shells for use in home. They had lots of nice features (build quality, cooling, assembly, etc.) that made them ideal for PC use with some slight modifications (getting off the shelf PC parts to fit could get interesting. ).

But Scott does bring up a point, considering this is fairly common for OEM builds for professional workstations, why hasn't it migrated to the upper tier of enthusiast gaming systems? I mean sure those workstations used to go for 5k+ USD (or was it the 10k+ USD systems that came with the more server style ducted and directed cooling? My memory is a bit hazy), but upper end gaming enthusiasts will spend that and more.

Regards,
SB

Yah, I kind of forgot about all the pro workstations that have already done this. It's just weird to see people jump through hoops with incredibly expensive custom water-cooling, or trying to manage with off-the-shelf aio coolers when simple air cooling could work a ton better with directed airflow. And I think some kind of way to bring radiators outside the enclosure of the case could be easy for any type of water cooling.

 

[Malo]

Dell have ducts for their CPU cooling on even the most basic workstations for decades. It becomes very difficult though when you're dealing with non-OEM designs.

 

[Scott_Arm]

It can't be too crazy to have a PC case that has a gpu chamber that's ducted that uses a riser cable. It probably require the case being a bit larger though and then you have to worry about whether the chamber would be large enough to fit the next gen of gpus, but that's becoming a case problem in general now. In fact with the size of high-end gpus, you lose so many pcie slots anyway.

 

[Pressure]

It can't be too crazy to have a PC case that has a gpu chamber that's ducted that uses a riser cable. It probably require the case being a bit larger though and then you have to worry about whether the chamber would be large enough to fit the next gen of gpus, but that's becoming a case problem in general now. In fact with the size of high-end gpus, you lose so many pcie slots anyway.

You would probably need to change the heatsink. A fully passive model for max airflow with two 120mm intake fans could be interesting but at that point you might as well use water cooling.

 

[Scott_Arm]

You would probably need to change the heatsink. A fully passive model for max airflow with two 120mm intake fans could be interesting but at that point you might as well use water cooling.

The directions and placements of the fans on the gpu with the location of the displayport outputs probably make it hard for a gpu chamber to make sense. The nvidia founders gpu has that interesting airflow at the end of the card that actually give him a way to duct through the gpu.

Also, there's a thread about this on reddit and people seem to be really upset about the clickbait title lol.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Dell have ducts for their CPU cooling on even the most basic workstations for decades. It becomes very difficult though when you're dealing with non-OEM designs.

I was thinking that. They've had some of the worst of the proprietary cases, but I always sort of liked how they'd duct the CPU to a fresh air source. People have been building their own for years, even cardboard ones work well.

 

[digitalwanderer]

It can't be too crazy to have a PC case that has a gpu chamber that's ducted that uses a riser cable. It probably require the case being a bit larger though and then you have to worry about whether the chamber would be large enough to fit the next gen of gpus, but that's becoming a case problem in general now. In fact with the size of high-end gpus, you lose so many pcie slots anyway.

I just cheat and drill a 120mm hole in the side of my case for a fan to blow directly on my GPU.

 

[Malo]

I was thinking that. They've had some of the worst of the proprietary cases, but I always sort of liked how they'd duct the CPU to a fresh air source. People have been building their own for years, even cardboard ones work well.

Well they're not exactly the same as what's been suggested here as they're just a passive cooler sitting on top of the CPU with a duct going to an exhaust fan. So it's not exactly a very efficient system, more Dell being cheap and less complications with cooling. But yeah, they do these setups because everything they have is proprietary.

 

[arandomguy]

Yah, I kind of forgot about all the pro workstations that have already done this. It's just weird to see people jump through hoops with incredibly expensive custom water-cooling, or trying to manage with off-the-shelf aio coolers when simple air cooling could work a ton better with directed airflow. And I think some kind of way to bring radiators outside the enclosure of the case could be easy for any type of water cooling.

Because the uncomfortable reality is for the cooling crowd it's also really about form as opposed to function, not really different from the self acknowledged aesthetics crowd (including RGB crowd). Those expensive custom water solutions are the product itself, it's not actually to functional serve the compute function of the computer.

Despite how the title was framed there was no problem to fix in the first place. The RTX 4090 FE isn't exactly overheating itself (that 75 vs. 65 C difference doesn't actually impact operations) or requiring insane fan speeds (150 rpm difference by his numbers) without this solution.

The only modern consumer PC component that is really a struggle to cool with off the shelf items maybe is the highest end Intel CPUs without power limits in certain workloads (which we can go into if it matters) , or I guess PCIe 5.0 NVMe drives in certain scenarios (which can also go into if it matters).

 

[arandomguy]

But Scott does bring up a point, considering this is fairly common for OEM builds for professional workstations, why hasn't it migrated to the upper tier of enthusiast gaming systems? I mean sure those workstations used to go for 5k+ USD (or was it the 10k+ USD systems that came with the more server style ducted and directed cooling? My memory is a bit hazy), but upper end gaming enthusiasts will spend that and more.

There's a difference though between spending a lot due to high component costs as opposed to spending more on the actual build/support costs. Those workstation type builds have way more margins going into them (as well as volume compared to one off individual builds) to spend on basically the budget for the actual build itself sans core components. Take also that Apple example being bought up, what's a common complaint about Apple? That you pay more more for the core component specs.

Also I commented on this above but cooling isn't an actual problem for modern builds from a real functional stand point. As in the the compute function of the computer isn't being negatively affected. This means anything you're really spending above that baseline on the build is for what makes you feel good. If what makes most people feel good is aethetics along a different line, than that's where the market will cater to.

 

[pascal]

Client: I need a better cooled case.
Technician: What is your budget?
Client: 3 dolars.
Technician: no problem.

 

[Malo]

Cheapest best cooling? Take off the side panels and place a box fan next to the case.

 

[hughJ]

I recall ducting and baffling being pretty common in DIY cooling in the early/mid-2000s. Pretty sure I had cardboard intake and exhaust baffling for my thunderbird at one point, and later for two radiators that were side by side. It's really too build-specific (case, mobo, heatsinks, etc) to be productized other than those side-panel ducts that pointed straight at the CPU, and that went away when cooler design shifted from top-down heatsinks to towers, along with the move from 60mm and 80mm fans to 92mm and 120mm.

Thermalright had an accordion-style exhaust duct that you could strap between the back of the heatsink and case exhaust, but I don't think it was really all that necessary as a tower cooler is practically right next to the case exhaust already. I'm also not sure how broadly beneficial they truly are. A server or laptop is one thing, as you've got limited space and positions for intake and exhaust, and limited overall volume, so your only option are small, noisy high pressure fans with ducts to make sure everything gets a predictable amount of air. A desktop PC has tons of area, flexibility, and volume so you get to use large diameter, quiet, low RPM fans.

In a world where PC cooling is mostly about AIOs, water kits, and cases with pre-made mounting points for radiators, the whole DIY hotrod culture feels like a thing of the past. People aren't cutting and assembling their own side windows, they're not buying heater cores and aquarium pumps, or using PVC pipes for bong coolers. Reminds me that I should post a picture of my Geforce DDR. Probably the least photogenic water cooling job ever, but it was fully custom.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

There's a difference though between spending a lot due to high component costs as opposed to spending more on the actual build/support costs. Those workstation type builds have way more margins going into them (as well as volume compared to one off individual builds) to spend on basically the budget for the actual build itself sans core components. Take also that Apple example being bought up, what's a common complaint about Apple? That you pay more more for the core component specs.

Also I commented on this above but cooling isn't an actual problem for modern builds from a real functional stand point. As in the the compute function of the computer isn't being negatively affected. This means anything you're really spending above that baseline on the build is for what makes you feel good. If what makes most people feel good is aethetics along a different line, than that's where the market will cater to.

I should have been more specific, when I mentioned upper end enthusiast builds, I meant something along the line of Alienware, etc. which have very high margins for the consumer PC space. And there are Alienware customers that would be more than willing to spend 5-10k+ USD on their gaming rig. Basically comparable to workstation margins. The only question would be how large is that market? It's likely smaller but when you get to that level of enthusiast gamers, they're also likely to be willing to spend more than most companies would spend on their high priced workstations.

I did not mean DIY put it together yourself PC builds.

Regards,
SB