Obligatory iPhone 4 Thread...

[Grall]

Hardware's looking good, IMO. By that I mean both the casing itself, and what's in it. Of course, thanks to previous leaks, the actual specs aren't much of a surprise.

Apparantly the thing's made entirely out of antiscratch-treated glass - both front AND back - with a stainless steel bezel around it which doubles as an antenna. Wicked. I never really liked the curved rear side of the previous iPhones; I much prefer a straight-backed "brick" type design. However, I guess some apple lovers will get grumpy when the docks of their consumer electronics no longer fit the contour of this new model!

One of the things I did not know of is the new MEMS gyro - I thought the iPhone already had that functionality, but apparantly the existing accelerometer in older models does not offer full six axis detection. The digital compass added in the 3Gs version was not mentioned in the reports I've read so far - I assume it is still in.

Regarding the camera, does anyone know what a "backside illuminated sensor" is? I'd imagine you would NOT want to illuminate your sensor - except by whatever photons you actually wish to capture in your photograph... I suppose it might refer to the new LED lamp, but that one's also mentioned separately, so I dunno really... *shrug*

The LCD screen uses IPS tech, not OLED. I'm not sorry, I don't believe OLED is ready for prime time yet. Seemingly Apple agrees. 4x higher contrast than previous iPhone models? Yes please, thank you. Don't care all that much for the 4x higher resolution though; 3D graphics may suffer having to shift that many more pixels. The framerate produced by the A4 processor sagged in the iPad I read in some tests/reviews, but the iPad screen is slightly higher rez than even this screen so perhaps it'll do OK. I just hope text renders well on this screen so I don't have to squint at tiny letters on a minimal display, if I were to buy one of these things.

Longer battery life, Steve says? Hurm! I'll believe it when I see it! The 3Ds had pathetic battery life, hardly making it through a full day even with just light use and that was with a fresh battery back from when the device launched. As we all know, Li-io/polymer batteries age rather horribly. This model is reportedly only marginally better, but at least it's SOME improvement.

Oh, and still no SD cardslot, fucksake...! Why oh why can't they just stick one in there, there's plenty room for it! (It's so you'll pay a hundred fucking dollars extra for the 32GB version, of course.)

Anyway, I fairly much hate Apple as a company, I think their attitude towards their own customers and digital freedom in general sucks ass, but the polished and well-featured nature of the hardware + resident software, plus the increasing ubiquitousness of iPhone applications for various uses makes this a veeeeery tempting product.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The new design is great. Most smartphones are loaded with features I wouldn't use, and this is no exception. All I need is gmail, gcal and mp3 playing.

 

[Entropy]

Regarding the camera, does anyone know what a "backside illuminated sensor" is? I'd imagine you would NOT want to illuminate your sensor - except by whatever photons you actually wish to capture in your photograph... I suppose it might refer to the new LED lamp, but that one's also mentioned separately, so I dunno really... *shrug*

It is a fill factor enhancing technology that applies to CMOS sensors, minimizing the area stolen by non-photon capturing circuitry. Good stuff, for small sensors. In conjunction with the larger sensor (unchanged pixel size in spite of higher resolution) I am optimistic as far as photo quality goes. 720p video recording is promising if the sensor is what it seems, but quality will depend on compression and other factors.

Edit: sample photos

 

[wishiknew]

I didn't know what that back side thing was until I googled.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200806/08-069E/index.html

But I do wonder about the naming of back and the front though.

 

[wco81]

The new design is great. Most smartphones are loaded with features I wouldn't use, and this is no exception. All I need is gmail, gcal and mp3 playing.

Then you may not need a smart phone, certainly not one of these with 1 Ghz CPUs in the SOC.

These phones are now being designed to run apps. and games, as well as do some fancy multimedia.

Android is also being aimed at "feature phones" which should cost less than smart phones.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Then you may not need a smart phone, certainly not one of these with 1 Ghz CPUs in the SOC.

These phones are now being designed to run apps. and games, as well as do some fancy multimedia.

Android is also being aimed at "feature phones" which should cost less than smart phones.

To be honest, I'd buy an iPhone anyway, because they're getting to be insanely cheap and I pretty much have an iPod with me at all times anyway. One less thing to carry, between my phone and mp3 player. I'm sure I'd use the occassional app, and do a bit of browsing, it's just not something I really need to have. The new design is really really nice.

 

[wco81]

Hardware cost is cheap.

The service is what really costs money over the life of the contract, especially if you don't use that much 3G data or burn up all your minutes.

If they offered an option to buy unlocked for say $500 but you get to use prepaid voice and data plans, that would be much more appealing.

 

[aaronspink]

Regarding the camera, does anyone know what a "backside illuminated sensor" is? I'd imagine you would NOT want to illuminate your sensor - except by whatever photons you actually wish to capture in your photograph... I suppose it might refer to the new LED lamp, but that one's also mentioned separately, so I dunno really... *shrug*

backside merely means that the imaging side is opposite of the metal/transistor side of the design. Effectively you build all the same structure: diode embedded in the substrate, transistors and wires on the substrate, etc. The difference comes from where you put the lens and color filter. In a traditional CMOS or CCD, the light path is on the front of the chip (where bumps would go on a flipchip design) while on a backside illuminated design, you flip the chip over and put the color filter (if there is one) and the lens on the silicon surface that hasn't been processed. The advantage is less internal interference because of the transistors and wires. The downside is that process controls and diode depth have to increase to make it work. In general, all the high end sensors are backside illuminated.

The LCD screen uses IPS tech, not OLED. I'm not sorry, I don't believe OLED is ready for prime time yet. Seemingly Apple agrees. 4x higher contrast than previous iPhone models? Yes please, thank you. Don't care all that much for the 4x higher resolution though; 3D graphics may suffer having to shift that many more pixels. The framerate produced by the A4 processor sagged in the iPad I read in some tests/reviews, but the iPad screen is slightly higher rez than even this screen so perhaps it'll do OK. I just hope text renders well on this screen so I don't have to squint at tiny letters on a minimal display, if I were to buy one of these things.

They aren't decreasing text size but increasing pixels for letter. Effectively think of it as the different between a 1200 DPI printer and a 400 DPI printer.

Oh, and still no SD cardslot, fucksake...! Why oh why can't they just stick one in there, there's plenty room for it! (It's so you'll pay a hundred fucking dollars extra for the 32GB version, of course.)

meh, the rage of SD slots is overblown. by having the flash inbuilt they get guaranteed performance and timing.

 

[aaronspink]

Hardware cost is cheap.

The service is what really costs money over the life of the contract, especially if you don't use that much 3G data or burn up all your minutes.

If they offered an option to buy unlocked for say $500 but you get to use prepaid voice and data plans, that would be much more appealing.

you can get it unlocked and you can use prepaid.

 

[RobertR1]

Getting a white one to replace my 3G model. The conf was impressive as are the hand on coming in.

 

[Scott_Arm]

actually, one of the best things i saw was quad-band HSDPA, which means it might work on the new carrier here.

 

[Grall]

on a backside illuminated design, you flip the chip over and put the color filter (if there is one) and the lens on the silicon surface that hasn't been processed.

Interesting! So the sensors on the processed side are actually sensitive enough to pick up the effects of light striking the other side of the substrate, if I understand your explanation correctly. How thick are these silicon wafers they use anyway? Can't be very much I'm thinking, or surely this technique wouldn't work?

Also, couldn't this method lead to a slight blurring of the image, as a photon striking the rear side near the border between two pixel elements be picked up by both of them?

They aren't decreasing text size but increasing pixels for letter. Effectively think of it as the different between a 1200 DPI printer and a 400 DPI printer.

Yeah, I get this, but I'm worried about poorly designed web pages (style sheets are my personal nemesis, as they refuse to be affected by changing the text size in the browser), or text formed by using image graphics...

meh, the rage of SD slots is overblown. by having the flash inbuilt they get guaranteed performance and timing.

Other than full HD video playback - which the screen rez does not support - what in an iPhone is THAT I/O performance sensitive? And regarding HD video, you can't (legally) rip blu-rays to stick on flash cards which might not be fast enough to support their bitrate - and they probably don't fit anyway as most movies are probably >16GB, which is the price/capacity sweet-spot for micro-sized flash devices right now...

So if you transcode the movie down to the ~900*whatever rez of the screen rez in order to shoehorn it onto the card, bitrate demands will drop considerably as well, making it possible to use even on slower SD cards! ...Except of course there isn't a cardslot, so duh... There goes that idea.

 

[aaronspink]

actually, one of the best things i saw was quad-band HSDPA, which means it might work on the new carrier here.

according to the FCC filing its actually penta-band HSDPA.

 

[aaronspink]

Yeah, I get this, but I'm worried about poorly designed web pages (style sheets are my personal nemesis, as they refuse to be affected by changing the text size in the browser), or text formed by using image graphics...

iOS have fullscreen zoom capability built into the web browser. It was the thing that made web browsing on a phone viable. You can zoom in and out the whole page instead of diddling with font size.

Other than full HD video playback - which the screen rez does not support - what in an iPhone is THAT I/O performance sensitive? And regarding HD video, you can't (legally) rip blu-rays to stick on flash cards which might not be fast enough to support their bitrate - and they probably don't fit anyway as most movies are probably >16GB, which is the price/capacity sweet-spot for micro-sized flash devices right now...

So if you transcode the movie down to the ~900*whatever rez of the screen rez in order to shoehorn it onto the card, bitrate demands will drop considerably as well, making it possible to use even on slower SD cards! ...Except of course there isn't a cardslot, so duh... There goes that idea.

[/quote]

Personally the only device with an SD slot that makes sense is the N8 with 16 GB of built in which allows you to use the SD for data only. Most of the phones with SD slots have minuscule capacity (100's of MB of which a good portion is already taken with the base load) making the SD slots not an option but a necessity at which point, there is no real point in having it be in a slot.

Just don't see the advantage of them honestly. The form factor is too small and they are two fragile. Lost more GB worth of them than I care to remember. Plus in 6 months Apple will release a 64GB version of the phone for $299.

 

[nutball]

Interesting! So the sensors on the processed side are actually sensitive enough to pick up the effects of light striking the other side of the substrate, if I understand your explanation correctly. How thick are these silicon wafers they use anyway? Can't be very much I'm thinking, or surely this technique wouldn't work?

Back-illuminated CCDs are commonly used in astronomy, and have been for quite a while, due to their improved light-capturing efficiency. They're typically thinned devices, ie. the subtrate is reduced in thickness by some chemical etching process as part of a later step in the production process.

 

[Scott_Arm]

according to the FCC filing its actually penta-band HSDPA.

Weird. The apple website only lists the following, and unfortunately not the band I'm looking for (1700 MHz)

UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz)

 

[Grall]

iOS have fullscreen zoom capability built into the web browser.

Yeah, I know. IE has the same thing nowadays, and I actually need to use it on my 22" 1920 monitor when reading + leaning back in my chair.

However, zooming the entire page on a screen as small as the iPhone's often introduces the need for VILE horizontal scrolling... Anyways, I'm not really upset about increasing the screen rez. I'm sure such a tight dot pitch gives images a really smooth appearance, and I can't wait to check it out myself.

Most of the phones with SD slots have minuscule capacity (100's of MB of which a good portion is already taken with the base load)

Perhaps that is so; my current phone for example, the S-E W995, has <120MB user-useable on-board flash, but that still does not preclude the usefulness of a cardslot. If nothing else it would remove the need for docking the phone to easily fill it up with new data.

Plus in 6 months Apple will release a 64GB version of the phone for $299.

Hm, what's the prescident for them doing that? I've no memory of Apple either updating specs halfway inbetween product cycles OR really dropping their prices either...

 

[Entropy]

In general, all the high end sensors are backside illuminated.

Your technical description is, as far as I understand it, perfectly correct. However, I was under the impression that the technology (introduced and described here, 11th of June 2008) wasn't too interesting for higher end sensors since the larger pixel area, typically 10 times or so greater than the sensor in the iPhone 4, made the losses due to the reasons you described fairly small.
The sensor described in the Sony press release - 5MP, 1.75um squared et cetera bears a striking resemblance to the one used in the iPhone 4. Their commercial sensor products are described at Sony for the truly nerdy.

 

[Toaddio]

Don't care all that much for the 4x higher resolution though; 3D graphics may suffer having to shift that many more pixels. The framerate produced by the A4 processor sagged in the iPad I read in some tests/reviews, but the iPad screen is slightly higher rez than even this screen so perhaps it'll do OK. I just hope text renders well on this screen so I don't have to squint at tiny letters on a minimal display, if I were to buy one of these things.

The higher resolution should result in more accuracy for the end user when interacting with the device.

 

[Erinyes]

Yeah, I know. IE has the same thing nowadays, and I actually need to use it on my 22" 1920 monitor when reading + leaning back in my chair.

However, zooming the entire page on a screen as small as the iPhone's often introduces the need for VILE horizontal scrolling... Anyways, I'm not really upset about increasing the screen rez. I'm sure such a tight dot pitch gives images a really smooth appearance, and I can't wait to check it out myself.

I guess they'll implement some form of text reflow like the latest android phones have done. To quote from Gsmarena's review of the Samsung Galaxy S

The Galaxy S browser supports three zoom methods – dedicated buttons, double tap and multitouch pinch-zooming.
The browser supports text reflow – a moment after adjusting the zoom level, columns of text adjust to fit the screen width. Without text reflow you will either have to zoom out until the text fits (but then it’s too small to read comfortably) or scroll sideways to read each line.

Perhaps that is so; my current phone for example, the S-E W995, has <120MB user-useable on-board flash, but that still does not preclude the usefulness of a cardslot. If nothing else it would remove the need for docking the phone to easily fill it up with new data.

Hm, what's the prescident for them doing that? I've no memory of Apple either updating specs halfway inbetween product cycles OR really dropping their prices either...

Yep i agree, a cardslot is really useful for transferring data. But apple has to protect its high margins, a card slot would eliminate the need to sell the 32gb version for which they can charge 100$ extra when you can get a 16gb microsd card for less than 50$

I think they're currently limited by the availability of higher capacity NAND. 20 nm class flash will double the capacity of current NAND flash modules, these should be available by the end of this year or early next year. We may see them upgrade the specs midway between the cycles or possibly they may just wait till iphone 5(or 4G? whatever they call it)