NVnews fun....

[demalion]

Am I the only one (or one of the very few) that never perceived DemoCoder to be in the "nVidia camp" or something along that line?
Just because he defended GFFX from time to time doesn't make him a nVidia fanboi, he defended the 9700 against silly claims just as much. He's one of the few balanced guys around. Everything with the GFFX isn't horrible.

I referred to the following, and I think it is illustrative of my point:

This was a statement illustrating partisanship. Keep in mind that I said "It is possible to address the hyperbole and selective reading resulting from partisanship without necessitating adopting those qualities yourself", so take note of what I am criticizing and what I am not. Also note the clear delineation of DemoCoder's "side" in the post.

This is an example of DemoCoder's selective memory (in regards to the end of the above linked post), atleast in my opinion. I have recollections of other examples of hyperbole, selective reading (see my comments to DemoCoder earlier in this thread for one example), and partisanship, but since this one seems vendor centric, I will highlight it.

That is not to say I assert that, for example, DemoCoder's post in this thread was vendor centric (my explanation is lot longer and can just be summarized as elitism for now), nor that the basic premise (criticizing the emotional tone of the thread topic) warranted criticism. I direct you to read my above post again if this is not clear, and perhaps take a gander at my discussion of the "FX Flow" thread response I had previously offered DemoCoder from earlier in this thread.

 

[Diespinnerz]

Couldnt agree more with you more basic(as well as humus and DC).
Then again I've only got a few posts so what do I know -heh



The only thing your "proving" demalion is how little you are..

 

[demalion]

Couldnt agree more with you more basic(as well as humus and DC).
Then again I've only got a few posts so what do I know -heh



The only thing your "proving" demalion is how little you are..

How "little" of me to think I should back up my statements with reasoning and examples. It would be much "bigger" of me to just call someone a name when I don't agree with them.

 

[Diespinnerz]

Over your head Demalion.

 

[antlers]

The point being, on this BB, arguments about the conduct of individuals or corporations are intrinsically uninteresting.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Right there: "His team".

He's not any team, yet he's incessantly painted that way. Disagreeing with somebody's statements or unreasonable accusations does not make you on a team.

Hold on there, Russ.

You say that like my saying "His Team" is a bad thing. I never said or implied any such thing.

Let's make a couple things clear:
It was obvious to me that DC had a bias for nVidia.

Having said that, and I've said this before, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. MOST of the disagreements we had with respect to graphics, came down to in essence agreeing to disagree.

In short, just because you are on a "team", as I perceived DC to be, doesn't mean I find any fault in him for that. His arguments, though I disagreed many times, were typically on solid ground.

It's when your arguments go from "reasonable" to "unreasonable" that being on a team becomes "bad". That is, supporting your team just for the sake of supporting it. It most cases, I did not see DC doing this.

Ao again...why did he leave? You'll have to ask him. If I had to guess, it's because it's EXACTLY because it would be getting damn near impossible to "support his team" with reasonable arguments, given the current situation. So rather than become unreasonable, he's just decided to just let it go. All IMO of course.

 

[demalion]

The point being, on this BB, arguments about the conduct of individuals or corporations are intrinsically uninteresting.

Is that directed at me? If so:

Did I misunderstand Humus' question?

How is it Diespinnerz can justify agreeing with one side of exactly that type of discussion, and label me as "little" for holding the same discussion but happening to disagree?

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Diespinnerz:

That was uncalled for. You disgrace yourself and the people that you associate yourself with. Wouldn't it be more prudent to defend Democoder rather than propogate this further? What has demalion posted that deserved that kind of response?

Nite_Hawk

 

[Doomtrooper]

The problem is simply during the early days (and there is only a few old B3D'ers here)..Joe Defuria, Kristof, Basic and Pcchen and Democoder, John Reynolds and Wavey to name a few when Nvidia was a dominent player this board was filled full of Nvidia technology battles vs 3DFX.
This site was labelled more pro-3dfx back then due to some of the members here downplaying some of the Nvidia PR...like the 100 T&L titles before the end of year rubbish.
Now when this board gets a more balanced membership, and Nvidia is no longer a dominent player he decides to leave (please its too bad some of the old forums database is not around).
I find it funny that people assume Democoder never had a preference (he even admitted it, and had stock investments into the company) so it doesn't take a rocket scientist...
Democoder knew what the NV30 was going to deliver, and decides to leave because of it..bahhh

I think its silly he left, he has battled here a long time defending HIS views..no need to stop now.

The thing is alot people on this board want is fair shake, the truth and no one here wants to see one company succeed over the other..competition is good...cutting throught the marketing PR is one thing this board is legendary for.

 

[Sharkfood]

What I consider "unreasonable" is to simply defend a product or technology without any form of tangible basis, or going against common sense by delving into the surreal, hypothetical or unfounded in order to build such a fabrication.

I see DC as being on the "NVIDIA team" from the standpoint that every valid concern that has been voiced against the NV30, there was ole' DC to try and defend or otherwise obscure the point by taking the subject off topic or by dispelling such claims with nonsense.

It isn't ludicrous to mention that, yeah, the fan on the NV30 is freaking huge.. the card runs hot and also makes a lot of noise as has been reported by numerous sources, dating back to the original unveiling a month+ ago. Especially when an NVIDIA rep was overheard making a joke about headphones concerning the noise factor.

These were legitimate concerns then as they are now. They are founded from reports and information from *multiple* sources, and thus deserve at least some amount of discussion or query. Yeah, some of the JPG's and image jokes were a little over the top, but this doesnt mean you go around labeling everyone that basically queries such topics as a "FanATIc" or "fanboi" Obviously, if you are concerned about what debris or dust might have impact on a fresh-air/outside case intake system may have on the longevity of a product, you must be anti-NVIDIA and a propaganda monkey. Yeah, that's it.

It didnt matter what the valid concern was- if it had anything that wasn't 100% pro-NVIDIA, it was thus denounced as somehow wearing rose-tinted glasses or being a cheerleader for a competitor. This is hogwash.

I'll now leave the thread for Diespinner to post his usually witless, one line, zero substance retort. Good day.

 

[Althornin]

Over your head Demalion.

please stop trolling.
Demalion offers proof and evidence for his opinion - you insult him merely because you disagree.
Please cease being rude.

 

[Humus]

Humus:
No you're not the only one.
I also consider him as one of the most balanced here. Whenever I saw him pull hard towards "the nVidia camp", he was actually pulling the discussion towards a more reasonable level. It's just that the vector from the point those discussions were to the reasonable point had approximately the same direction as a vector from the discussions to the nVidia camp.

The length of those vectors were quite different though, but that might be difficult to see if you're standing in "the ATI camp".

Russ has a similar status in my mind.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[LeStoffer]

DemoCoder is da shiznit!

Why the hell are some people so obsessed with trying to corner other posters into a specific camp? Take one argument and discussion at a time and cut out the mental “you’re just saying because you’re a fan*boyâ€￾ BS, please.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I also consider him as one of the most balanced here. Whenever I saw him pull hard towards "the nVidia camp", he was actually pulling the discussion towards a more reasonable level.

I would agree in many , but not all, cases.

Now the next quesiton: how often did you see him "pull hard towards the ATI camp...to pull an nVidia slanted discussion or viewpoint towards a reasonable level".

And again, I am NOT saying this behavior is bad, etc. I'm merely saying that to be perceived as biased, doens't mean you have to make unreasonable posts. You can look at ALL situations from various viewpoints. If all of your viewpoints are reasonable, and yet the vast majority of them are from the "best interests for nVidia" viewpoint, I consider that biased.

Having a bias is not bad in and of itself.

 

[Humus]

I must say this too.
When I came here, sure I viewed DemoCoder as a nVidia fan, and we had some hot arguments at each other too. But it was just me sitting firmly in the ATi camp.

But over the time I've learned what kind of guy he is, and in some way I can understand that some of you misunderstood him for being biased. He just tend to have strong opinions and isn't afraid of stating his opinions, which may offend some if you don't share his opinions. Given the success of the 9700 it's understandable that more people move over to the ATi side, and as DemoCoder tried to balance the discussion this would offend loads of die-hard fanATics. People seam to have forgot all the excitement DC expressed over the 9700 when he got one. People seam also to forget how much he have defended the 9700 from some die-hard nVidiots. He also expressed several times as discussions went into pesky details of number of instructions in the shaders/dynamic or static branching or similar between the NV30 and R300 that "the specifics of both these are so much beyond previous generation that we all should be dancing on the streets now" (qouted from memory) basically saying that argueing over this is pretty pathetic. Yes, I contributed in such quite silly threads too. And DC was there to bring balance to the discussion.

 

[demalion]

Since I remember clearly DemoCoder defending the 9700, and tried to make it extremely clear that vendor centric bias is not the focus of my criticism of DemoCoder, I recommend you scroll to the top of the page and read my post again, including, links, if you haven't done so.

I mention this to point out that I understand the viewpoint of DemoCoder you are addressing, but am saying it is not my reason for criticizing DemoCoder. You don't have to share my opinion of my viewpoint, I'm just trying to establish that you've read it, as your comments such as "Given the success of the 9700 it's understandable that more people move over to the ATi side, and as DemoCoder tried to balance the discussion this would offend loads of die-hard fanATics" don't fit what I'm saying at all (in my view).

 

[Deflection]

Humus:
No you're not the only one.
I also consider him as one of the most balanced here. Whenever I saw him pull hard towards "the nVidia camp", he was actually pulling the discussion towards a more reasonable level. It's just that the vector from the point those discussions were to the reasonable point had approximately the same direction as a vector from the discussions to the nVidia camp.

The length of those vectors were quite different though, but that might be difficult to see if you're standing in "the ATI camp".

Russ has a similar status in my mind.

We'll said. Mathematically speaking. Of course the usual suspects have buried it under an additional 15 posts. If Democoder is reading this, I would like to say stick around. Prolific posters don't necessarily represent the attitude of most readers.

 

[Humus]

Now when this board gets a more balanced membership, and Nvidia is no longer a dominent player he decides to leave (please its too bad some of the old forums database is not around).

Balanced membership?
This board have never been more unbalanced. I see Chalnoth fighting alone with just a few guys prehaps adding a line or two of support occasionally.

Democoder knew what the NV30 was going to deliver, and decides to leave because of it..bahhh

Yes, he knew what it was going to deliver, but that's not the reason why he left. He left because there are too few reasonable people around. This board has been nothing but an ATi promoting and nVidia hating site the last few months. I expect this from the Rage3D forums, it's an ATi fansite, but not around here. If there's no balanced discussions going on here I fully understand him if he things there's no longer a point of contributing here. He understood that what the GFFX would perform in the reviews were only going to make it worse. And he was right.

 

[RussSchultz]

You say that like my saying "His Team" is a bad thing. I never said or implied any such thing.

Let's make a couple things clear:
It was obvious to me that DC had a bias for nVidia.

I don't think he cares what bias you think he has. I know I certainly don't care about your opinions on my standing. You've stated it enough for us to know how you feel, so you can keep your thoughts to yourself from now on.

But that isn't the problem here at all. The problem is that discussions like these even need to exist. Its the fact that nearly every discussion ends being couched in these terms that is so tiring. Its the rabid snipes at opposing companies or products, or the endless declarations of fanboyishness when somebody stands up to the stupid accusations and tries to set them straight. That is why I've considered avoiding these forums, myself.

Doom: For the record, I owned stock in 3dfx. How does that rock your little world? It must be tough to file that tidbit in the NVIDIOT box where I sit.

 

[Humus]

Since I remember clearly DemoCoder defending the 9700, and tried to make it extremely clear that vendor centric bias is not the focus of my criticism of DemoCoder, I recommend you scroll to the top of the page and read my post again, including, links, if you haven't done so.

I mention this to point out that I understand the viewpoint of DemoCoder you are addressing, but am saying it is not my reason for criticizing DemoCoder. You don't have to share my opinion of my viewpoint, I'm just trying to establish that you've read it, as your comments such as "Given the success of the 9700 it's understandable that more people move over to the ATi side, and as DemoCoder tried to balance the discussion this would offend loads of die-hard fanATics" don't fit what I'm saying at all (in my view).

Yes, I've read it. And yes, DemoCoder may not always right. But at least in the first link you posted I fully support DemoCoder's opinion even though I would have used softer words myself.