Nvidia Volta Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by DSC, Mar 19, 2013.

Tags:
  1. Erinyes

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    92
    Typo..I meant to say 10nm.. Also I should have clarified..I was referring to GV100 specifically. GP100 is pretty much maxed out in terms of die size and GV100 couldn't be much larger. They would probably be able to increase density a bit but would basically have to increase perf/W and/or perf/mm2 to see a substantial gain over GP100. Given how efficient Pascal already is..I wonder how much scope there is.
     
  2. Blazkowicz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    256
    Skipping 10nm correlates well with skipping mobile.

    Is Volta pretty much a refinement of Pascal? So far what I remember is known is :
    - RAS features (Reliability, Availability and Serviceablility), for Tegra
    - NV Link 2.0, as in faster/better/"this time it's a coherent interface, we promise", for HPC

    I will compare it to Intel's Haswell-EP vs Haswell-EX :
    - RAS features
    - Transactional memory features can actually be used

    It's a better improvement than GK210 vs GK110.
     
  3. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    179
    Location:
    Chania
    I've phrased it "GDDR6-whatever" since it's in the general consensus less important what the memory they'll use will be named as long as it delivers the necessary added bandwidth and fits the power & cost bill.
     
    pharma, Razor1 and ieldra like this.
  4. itaru

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    15
  5. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    The way I understand it: a 4 wide SIMD with 32-bit operands results in RAM banks that are 128-bit wide each. And you have 4 parallel banks, resulting in the 4x128 that's mentioned in the paper.

    I don't see a date in that paper, other than the _2012 in the URL, so this seems pretty old? Maybe part of the Echelon project?
     
  6. xpea

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2013
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    309
    some Volta information today from DGX Saturn V presentation:
    source: https://www.nextplatform.com/2016/11/14/nvidias-saturn-v-dgx-1-cluster-stacks/
     
  7. Blazkowicz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    256
    At the end of the article :

    But there I'm there, duh, isn't CAPI sort of what IBM calls the NVLink bus on its side of the bridge?
    It's a recent announcement, indeed AMD, Xilinx, Mellanox and others are invited to the OpenCAPI fest and they call the bus on POWER9 OpenCAPI.
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/10759/opencapi-unveiled-amd-ibm-google-more

    So in the end, yes that reads as if AMD will be able to use the NVLink 2.0 bus, literally if not for the fact you can call it by another name. But perhaps in a second generation system ; perhaps on some big dGPU.
     
  8. CSI PC

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,050
    Likes Received:
    844
    The challenge for them though is the R&D required to provide a much better fabric-connector solution; Intel bought the team & tech from Cray (QLogic) that is integral to their fabric Omni-path work while Nvidia headhunted key engineers related to Cray's interconnect work and core to the NVLink development.
    Both of which have been years in development and planning, and can be traced back to the work-experience of Cray's Aries interconnect to some extent.
    Cheers
     
    A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y likes this.
  9. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,183
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Finland
    No - OpenCAPI and NVLINK are separate even if they use same physical parts in the IBMs end

    [​IMG]

    (to my understanding "New CAPI" is what became OpenCAPI)
     
  10. psurge

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    LA, California
    Well, the diagram in this article, as well as the one you provide above, makes it seem like NVLink 2 and OpenCAPI could be using the same physical and link layers. It's not clear to me that NVLink 2 is separated from OpenCAPI by more than branding - do you have any concrete information on their differences that you can share?
     
  11. Anarchist4000

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    359
    It's more about the protocol than physical interconnection as serial connections are pretty straightforward. While AMD could potentially use NVLink, I'd imagine Nvidia want a significant licensing fee to do so. Even the protocol, I believe, was designed by an AMD Engineer that created GMI that Nvidia hired so it wouldn't be surprising if there were a lot of similarities.
     
  12. Blazkowicz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    256
    So it's a layer cake.

    I did read semi-recently about use of ethernet for on-board communications (sorry if I can't find it all, it seems hardly googlable). Sounds crazy, but if (somewhat) high latency/high throughput does the job and if integration of hardware and software is much easier it might have applications.

    Alright, that'd be the Gen-Z protocol that would sit on top of ethernet as an initial implementation, but is certainly meant to sit on top of others otherwise, like on top of OpenCAPI - or the other way around, because I can easily make a reading or comprehension mistake and mix up the layers.
    https://www.nextplatform.com/2016/10/12/raising-standard-storage-memory-fabrics/

    The article talks of memory pools and the ability to often safely pass pointers or metadata (handles) around instead of needlessly copying data from memory A to memory B, which I think is something I understand.

    NVLink I can understand it's its own thing, not a big deal if most implementations only use NVLink between GPUs and that's what you needed. (and could afford)
     
  13. xpea

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2013
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    309
  14. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,930
    Likes Received:
    1,626
    NVIDIA Volta GV100 GPU Chip For Summit Supercomputer Twice as Fast as Pascal P100 – Speculated To Hit 9.5 TFLOPs FP64 Compute
    http://wccftech.com/nvidia-volta-gv100-gpu-fast-pascal-gp100/
     
  15. itaru

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    15
    pharma and CSI PC like this.
  16. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    179
    Location:
    Chania
    Or maybe the superbrain of an author should first consider that Volta should come with quite some architectural changes. Even if we would be talking about a Pascal followup his conclusion would be complete nonsense since NV is using dedicated FP64 SPs, for which case it would had been "as much as you can fit in" and not a sterile *2 derived from an ancient projection on single precision throughput increase per Watt.

    On another note Xavier seems to have moved from the former 20 DL TOPs @20W recently to 30 DL TOPs @30W, which smells suspiciously like a frequency increase. From whom is NV all of the sudden getting wet feet in the automotive? The blue giants' FPGAs as someone else said?
     
  17. CSI PC

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,050
    Likes Received:
    844
    Well if true like I thought but importantly good news for Nvidia, they are doing the same run-launch sequence as they did with Pascal and that makes sense considering they made the unusual choice of manufacturing straight away with the biggest Pascal die possible even though it would have the highest risks/costs involved.
    I do stand and think they did that because they needed a technical stepping stone/risk management for their Volta design and obligations.
    With regards to the article remember how they announced the Pascal Drive PX2 well before the Pascal P100, and the Drive PX2 did not go into sampling status until very late in the year and well after P100 and even some consumer retail models.

    Anyway if Bill Dally is not being misrepresented, looks like we will see the 'V100' sometime summer period in similar accessibility as the P100 was; core supercomputer clients 1st followed by DGX-1 clients followed by certified node clients (basically full stack P100 in an elite providor own 'box') followed lastly by the single card PCIe.
    And the numbers are interesing because just one of the supercomputers with the 2017 contract will need over 20,000 'V100' GPUs, by the end of the year they will be producing a fair number (they have several supercomputer contracts on these already agreed) even if they are not seen as individual Tesla GPUs.
    Not surprised myself tbh.
    I do still wonder if a replacement to the 1080 will also be launched late this year, was always my feeling they would also keep that within the same product cycle as we saw with Pascal and P100 followed by 1080, albeit this time not until very late Q3 at the earliest.
    Cheers
     
    #97 CSI PC, Jan 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
    nnunn likes this.
  18. seahawk

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    141
    So they could announce GV100 around the same time AMD actually launches VEGA.
     
  19. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,183
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Finland
    I'm still skeptical on that, NVIDIAs roadmaps have clearly put Volta as 2018 product, while Pascal was 2016 product
     
  20. CarstenS

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,798
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Location:
    Germany
    Considering Nvidia hat GP100 in their labs around sep/oct 2015 and did not really show working samples at GTC'16, I don't think that they are ready to really show GV100 at GTC'17. Slide-announce, yeah, maybe.

    Impressive, if they can pull a 50% increase in performance and can keep power on the same linear scale as well. Or Xavier1 was massively underspecced from the get go. ;)
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...