Nvidia lowering power supply requirements?

karlotta said:
Stryyder said:
Shouldn't you have 18 AWG to safely conduct 5 Amps???

What I think you will see is required = Good 350 Watt powersupply Minimum 15 Amps on the 12+V rail Recommend any 480 Watt power supply.

No a 18 will carry MUCH more than that, there is a post in this thread that has the AWG rateings. And yes 15amp/12v rail is standard for quality 300/350 PSUs. But then the guys who have 6 IDE/SATA devices , 1-2 gigs of RAM ,Fans all over and a serious vidcard..... 15amps will let your system reboot every so often. ( and then some will think it was the drivers..lol)
good site to chk specs:dont mess around

As for Dell they tune there PSUs to there MBs and total system. Shuttle does the same. The MB is a key part in the power equation. A poor MB will not help a 15amp, you will have to make up for it with some 20amp+ PSU.. To me poor MBs are more of a issue than PSUs for the Do it your self crowd.

Conductivity Table

http://www.alphawire.com/pages/383.cfm?partner=0&part=0

As Temperature increases ability to carry current decreases...
 
Personally, I think nVidia's got rocks in its head to come off of their original recommendation of a 480W PS for the 6800U, as that's a high-priced, upper-end 3d card that will be sold in limited quantities compared to other products in the nV40 family.

First, there won't be any OEM anywhere, I would bet, who will ship them in systems with only one molex conntector attached. (I mean, what would they do, include a note with the system that says, "If you try and overclock your $500 3d card, or run intensive 3d games with it, you will need to manually attach the second molex connector, and may need to replace the current 350W PS you purchased with a 480W model for reliable operation"...? That would go over like a lead balloon.)

At home I'm running a Barton 2500+ with 1 gig of pc2700 ram (2x512) overclocked to a conservative but completely stable fsb of 180MHz+ (365.xxx MHz DDR) in dual channel mode, in an nf2-400 Chaintech 7njs motherboard, with onboard sound and onboard SATA disabled, a Promise TK2K PCI PATA RAID controller paired with two WD 100 0JB's in RAID 0 (8-meg cache), and a pair of WD 100 OBBs on the onboard IDE PATA primary channel. Secondary onboard IDE supports a DVD/CD-R, and a CD-R/CD drive. I'm running a stock-clocked 9800P in the AGP slot, and an Audigy 2 Platinum PCI soundcard. I'm fully networked with the 7njs's onboard network controller, and I use a USB keyboard and mouse, and have several system fans of various types in an aluminum Lian Li PC62 extended chassis case (which I dearly love because of its depth.) I also have a firewire card in there somewhere, but I've disabled it, IIRC.

Anyway, powering the whole thing is an Antech TruePower 430W, and although I know I have some room, I wouldn't want to push the 430 much further, especially on the 12V rail (often consumed by drives.) I don't think this is a wise move by nVidia--to come off of the original PSU requirements for the 6800U, which is a high-end, specialty 3d card to begin with, and a product that will not interest anyone else except "enthusiasts" in the first place. OEMs aren't likely to be influenced by this latest nVidia statement anyway, since they'll do their own in-house testing to determine what works with the 6800U and what doesn't in the way of their own PSU's included in the systems they sell, regardless of the generic wattage nVidia "recommends." That fact, among other things, really has me curious as to why nVidia didn't let well-enough alone with the original recommendation of 480W PSUs for the dual-molex 6800U.

More puzzling still is that I read a bit more "in depth" about this from some nVidia employee other than JHH, posted recently at Gamespot, I think, in which the nVidia employee made a very intelligent statement about the original 480W PSU recommendation. He said (paraphrased): "We recommended high to begin with because there's a difference in efficiencies offered in PSUs, between the wattage they purport to support and what they actually do support in reality, and we felt that a recommendation of 480W would keep everybody sufficiently powered." That is a sensible approach and, of course, the correct approach for the 6800U. But to come off of that now and say "~350W" is to negate all of the good sense in the original recommendation, since all 350W PSUs are not the same, either, in terms of efficiency. Obviously in certain systems configured in certain ways, with certain power supplies, 350W won't be enough for the dual-molex 6800U. So they move again from a sensible position to an insensible one, for the sake of PR bullets, and I really do think they had it right the first time.

But the most baffling presumption of all out of all of this is JHH's presumption that anyone who is not an "enthusiast" would ever be interested in the 6800*U* to begin with. I don't see that being the case, as people unenthusiastic about 3d gaming are not likely to buy a 6800U, or an x800PE, either, imo.
 
Stryyder said:
Conductivity Table

http://www.alphawire.com/pages/383.cfm?partner=0&part=0

As Temperature increases ability to carry current decreases...
And? the inside of the comp is not going to get any where near a a high temp to affect the current of a PSU lead. If you can sustain 80c+ ambeint for more that 1 min in side a comp the plastic would warp befor you could notice any issue with wires.. not a issue.. I have ran comps at 115f outside temp 148f cpu, and 120f inside...(poor CRT...) PSU was cranking out steady amps. This is playing games too. thank god there was pool near buy.
 
karlotta said:
Stryyder said:
Conductivity Table

http://www.alphawire.com/pages/383.cfm?partner=0&part=0

As Temperature increases ability to carry current decreases...
And? the inside of the comp is not going to get any where near a a high temp to affect the current of a PSU lead. If you can sustain 80c+ ambeint for more that 1 min in side a comp the plastic would warp befor you could notice any issue with wires.. not a issue.. I have ran comps at 115f outside temp 148f cpu, and 120f inside...(poor CRT...) PSU was cranking out steady amps. This is playing games too. thank god there was pool near buy.

Are you running an overclocked prescott? I recently read something about the prescotts having adverse affects on other parts inside a case. I will see if I can find it.

I think you are basically correct in the normal case scenario, but in bad or worst case I am not so sure.

Here is a link
 
DaveBaumann said:
Its not just 2D.
If R420 doesn't downclock for 2D, then maybe it has some Pentium M-like ability to "shut off" unused parts of the chip? This is carried over from ATi's mobile parts, I'd imagine.
 
no this particular set up was a AMD 1.1 tbird stock on a via kt133a and a 9700pro last summer for a game box the kids could use(or me playing lifeguard) near the blowup pool, that is how hot it would get with a outside temp at 115, it ran cooler at 96 to 105..lol Oh and it had a 120mm intake and 3 exhuast fans = 120m. So this is a worst case. and it ran for hours/days, the HDD is still going strong (deathstar 75). to be even more OT the CRT is funky since then. 1994 17in, trinny.

Wires will only fail if losse(short), or you pull current over the rating for a extended time. Just cant see a vidcard melting wire. But i can see it pulling more than the PSU/MB can handle so the northbridge would skip a beat.
 
Maintank said:
I think you are making a big deal out of nothing.

I bet you that when NV40s eventually ship, there will be loads of complaints in the newsgroups/website forums of system instability, artifacts, crashing in games, etc, even from people claiming they have the requisite power supply. There are a lot of weak PSUs out there that just won't be able to handle so much extra load.

We saw all this when R300 shipped, and people had problems with not having decent 350 watt PSUs (which is what ATI was recommending at the time), and NV40 will be the same thing again, only worse.
 
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
I bet you that when NV40s eventually ship, there will be loads of complaints in the newsgroups/website forums of system instability, artifacts, crashing in games, etc, even from people claiming they have the requisite power supply. There are a lot of weak PSUs out there that just won't be able to handle so much extra load.

I bet you that when the R420s eventually ship... there will be loads of complaints in the newsgroups/website forums of system instability, artifacts, crashing in games, etc. This is not a card specific occurence. Every card released to date has had this happen, and most of the time-- it isn't even the graphic card's fault!
 
bdmosky said:
I bet you that when the R420s eventually ship... there will be loads of complaints in the newsgroups/website forums of system instability, artifacts, crashing in games, etc. This is not a card specific occurence. Every card released to date has had this happen, and most of the time-- it isn't even the graphic card's fault!

Point taken, but I highly doubt this to be as likely since many of the people will be upgrading from ATI R300-based cards to R420s. Thus they will be running the same drivers. But it is possible that there will be a good number of people upgrading from Nvidia to ATI, which if so, will follow with the typical leftover effects of completely unremoved Nvidia drivers.
 
bdmosky said:
I bet you that when the R420s eventually ship... there will be loads of complaints in the newsgroups/website forums of system instability, artifacts, crashing in games, etc. This is not a card specific occurence. Every card released to date has had this happen, and most of the time-- it isn't even the graphic card's fault!

That's my point - problems will be caused by the lack of decent PSUs.

In the NV40's case, significant numbers of problems will be caused by the lack of the requiired PSU - hence Nvidia specifying a 480 watt PSU. I expect this problem to be a lot less prevalent on R420 where power needs are significantly lower. It's not "making a big deal out of nothing".
 
Fodder said:
John Reynolds said:
What I find strange is why their engineers would tell the company's PR/marketing to include 480 watt PSUs in their press releases if the boards would be fine with 'quality' 350 PSUs?
Because 9/10 PSUs sold are most definitely not 'quality'? I have severe doubts my Omni or Codegen 400 watters could handle a 6800 Ultra, I had a "300W" Omni that fell over when moving from a TNT2 to a GF2MX.
Wow now THAT is shitty. The GF2 MX isn't eating much pwer really.
 
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