Nvidia GeForce RTX 50-series product value

[Florin]

Now Jay is suggesting that Nvidia should take a hit to GeForce margins as a show of appreciation to the gamer community for their prior support of Nvidia products and sell the 16GB 5070 Ti for $379. That’s cute but the only way prices are coming down is if people stop buying. As long as we’re asking why not demand it be sold for $300.

I don’t know why Nvidia or any company would take these guys seriously. They don’t seem to live in the real world. I’ll be surprised if there’s enough 5060 Ti supply to support a $429 MSRP far less anything more generous.

'I feel it should be cheaper'. 'Do it for the gamerz!'. Well there's a refreshing and courageous take noone could possibly take issue with.

He proceeds to literally call them Ngreedia, and has a whole segment about Nvidia's stock price, to demonstrate.. what, exactly?

Tech journalism is turning into completely homogeneous and predictable pablum. I'm so bored.

 

[Sega_Model_4]

And what's the problem? I don't understand why he would defend a mega corporation and find the prices charged justifiable. The guy doesn't need to pursue journalism disguised as public relations.

From an economic point of view, what Nvidia does is understandable. After all, they have no reason to do it cheaper. However, this doesn't matter if their consumers start to feel cheated and this could tarnish their reputation. Price is always a sensitive issue.

 

[trinibwoy]

The problem is that asking for cheaper stuff isn’t journalism. Everyone wants free/cheap stuff. There needs to be some modicum of intelligence and objectivity to pass as journalism.

 

[Sega_Model_4]

The problem is that asking for cheaper stuff isn’t journalism. Everyone wants free/cheap stuff. There needs to be some modicum of intelligence and objectivity to pass as journalism.

This is called opinion journalism, in which the journalist expresses his opinion on the subject, in this case the price of the GPU.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's a problem for him to do it. It takes a minimum of intelligence to know how to differentiate between the different types of journalism and also to know exactly what to criticize.

 

[trinibwoy]

This is called opinion journalism

Every random post in this forum / Reddit etc is also opinion journalism. It means nothing. Some YouTube vids are entertainment sure and they should get paid for their content but it’s not journalism.

Btw I also want super cheap GPUs. Who doesn’t. That doesn’t make me a journalist though.

 

[Albuquerque]

I too wish for everything to be cheaper, better, and faster.

AlbuquerqueFX, Beyond3D Journalist

 

[Sega_Model_4]

Every random post in this forum / Reddit etc is also opinion journalism. It means nothing. Some YouTube vids are entertainment sure and they should get paid for their content but it’s not journalism.

Btw I also want super cheap GPUs. Who doesn’t. That doesn’t make me a journalist though.

Just because you think it's not journalism doesn't mean it's not journalism. The quality can obviously vary depending on the journalist.

You're cherrypicking, or rather, just being annoying.

 

[Albuquerque]

Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it a useful opinion.

Stop being annoying.

By the way, that's a shit-way of interacting with others on the internet. See how annoying it is to have it said to you? Don't do that.

 

[Sega_Model_4]

Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it a useful opinion.

Stop being annoying.

By the way, that's a shit-way of interacting with others on the internet. See how annoying it is to have it said to you? Don't do that.

It's still an opinion, isn't it? In the same way that video is also a form of journalism, regardless of whether the user thinks it isn't. It's his opinion and I disagree with his opinion.

Disagreeing is part of the discussion and is a way of interacting with people on the internet, regardless of whether they like it or not.

 

[pcchen]

It's still an opinion, isn't it? In the same way that video is also a form of journalism, regardless of whether the user thinks it isn't. It's his opinion and I disagree with his opinion.

Disagreeing is part of the discussion and is a way of interacting with people on the internet, regardless of whether they like it or not.

Not really. Even these days people should have some basic standards on journalism. To be called a journalist, an opinion needs to be an informed opinion. Saying the pricing is because "NVIDIA is greedy" is not an informed opinion.
I mean, if he's able to provide some evidences that availability is actually great or it's actually NVIDIA artificially restricting supply, then maybe he has some point. Otherwise, it's just an uninformed opinion. He's of course entitled to do so for entertainment purposes but just don't mistake it as journalism.

 

[Albuquerque]

Disagreeing is part of the discussion

Calling people names isn't discussion ('stop being annoying"). Don't do it.

You can disagree, and you can also do so without calling people names and telling people to stop having their opinions. Theirs are just as valid as yours, and calling names only demonstrates you've run out of thoughtful replies.

 

[trinibwoy]

Just because you think it's not journalism doesn't mean it's not journalism. The quality can obviously vary depending on the journalist.

You're cherrypicking, or rather, just being annoying.

Journalism is a well understood concept. Prodding Nvidia to sell stuff cheap because they’re making lots of AI money and they owe it to gamers is not journalism by anyone’s definition. It also belies poor understanding of how business works in the real world.

Actual journalism entails sharing facts and informed insights based on those facts.

In a recent HUB video Tim mentions that he asked Nvidia directly why they didn’t use 3GB modules on the 5060 Ti. The response was that those modules are in short supply and too expensive to use on a high volume product. That’s an example of journalism. Now the second part of that is Tim’s reaction to the answer which was the usual sensationalist rage baiting nonsense

 

[Sega_Model_4]

Not really. Even these days people should have some basic standards on journalism. To be called a journalist, an opinion needs to be an informed opinion. Saying the pricing is because "NVIDIA is greedy" is not an informed opinion.
I mean, if he's able to provide some evidences that availability is actually great or it's actually NVIDIA artificially restricting supply, then maybe he has some point. Otherwise, it's just an uninformed opinion. He's of course entitled to do so for entertainment purposes but just don't mistake it as journalism.

Again, there is a difference between informative journalism and opinion journalism. Opinion journalism is simply you saying whatever you want about whatever you want, regardless of the quality. Different audiences may have different opinions about the quality of the material and this will generate engagement from people who want to see your journalism.

You are applying your own quality filter to the material and judging its quality. But that is still journalism. It has been this way since the invention of the printing press.

Calling people names isn't discussion ('stop being annoying"). Don't do it.

You can disagree, and you can also do so without calling people names and telling people to stop having their opinions. Theirs are just as valid as yours, and calling names only demonstrates you've run out of thoughtful replies.

But it's annoying, because the criticism doesn't make much sense. This has been going on for months on the Hardware Unboxed thread, simply because some users don't like certain journalists. So the criticism ends up being very shallow because it's just ad hominem.

Journalism is a well understood concept. Prodding Nvidia to sell stuff cheap because they’re making lots of AI money and they owe it to gamers is not journalism by anyone’s definition. It also belies poor understanding of how business works in the real world.

Actual journalism entails sharing facts and informed insights based on those facts.

In a recent HUB video Tim mentions that he asked Nvidia directly why they didn’t use 3GB modules on the 5060 Ti. The response was that those modules are in short supply and too expensive to use on a high volume product. That’s an example of journalism. Now the second part of that is Tim’s reaction to the answer which was the usual sensationalist rage baiting nonsense

This is an example of well-crafted journalism. As I said, the quality may vary, but it's still journalism.

 

[trinibwoy]

Opinion journalism is simply you saying whatever you want about whatever you want, regardless of the quality.

Which makes all of us here journalists. I’ll add it to my resume

 

[homerdog]

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-windforce-gv-n5070wf3oc-12gd-nvidia-geforce-rtx-5070-12gb-gddr7/p/N82E16814932777?Item=N82E16814932777&SoldByNewegg=1

$610, this is the lowest I've seen the 5070. *Only* an 11% markup over MSRP.

I wonder what the 5060/5060Ti will actually go for. It's hard to argue that they're a poor value if they sell out and go for >MSRP for months on end. That said I still really wish we could be done with 8GB cards. @Dictator brought up the point on DF that these mid-low end cards tend to stick around for a long time, so devs will have to be catering to 8GB GPUs for many years to come. But that's not really NVIDIA's problem.

I've seen some complaining that the 5060Ti doesn't match or beat the 4070, but I'm surprised it comes as close as it does considering how small GB206 is. Big gains from GDDR7 I guess.

 

[trinibwoy]

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-windforce-gv-n5070wf3oc-12gd-nvidia-geforce-rtx-5070-12gb-gddr7/p/N82E16814932777?Item=N82E16814932777&SoldByNewegg=1

$610, this is the lowest I've seen the 5070. *Only* an 11% markup over MSRP.

Best I’ve seen too.

I wonder what the 5060/5060Ti will actually go for. It's hard to argue that they're a poor value if they sell out and go for >MSRP for months on end. That said I still really wish we could be done with 8GB cards. @Dictator brought up the point on DF that these mid-low end cards tend to stick around for a long time, so devs will have to be catering to 8GB GPUs for many years to come. But that's not really NVIDIA's problem.

Yep I really liked Alex’s point. It’s a good example of how to make a mature argument without resorting to populist whining and rage bait. We don’t want developers to still be fretting about 8GB cards when the PS6 drops.

 

[DegustatoR]

Again, there is a difference between informative journalism and opinion journalism. Opinion journalism is simply you saying whatever you want about whatever you want, regardless of the quality.

That's not "opinion journalism", it's you saying stuff which has no basis or merit just because you personally think it's true. "Opinion journalism" would be you providing an opinion based on information or knowledge you have whether it's public - and so you can refer to that or present it prior to giving your opinion - or private, in which case a viewer can decide whether to believe you or not, and this is usually a result of your previous statements and opinions originating from similar private info turning out to be correct.

Just saying things like "hey, why not a commercial company sponsor our gaming hobbies with their money which they have a lot of from other markets" isn't an opinion, it's a suggestion which is based on lack of understanding of how markets, commerce and a dozen of other things actually work. This is little more than an indication of the person suggesting this not being very smart - or in case of these techtuber guys being intentionally as "smart" as the masses which give them clicks and views by validating their own myths and wrong assumptions.

The latter has become especially annoying lately as it's nothing more than a feedback loop of myths regurgitating again and again inside the same echo chambers to the point where no one seem to have any inclination to actually check if these myths are based on actual data or if they are just based on their own previous iterations.

Last time everyone were "expecting" a different perf/price while not giving any reason why such expectations were plausible at this point in time aside from "it was like that 10 years ago!" and now this expectation seem to repeat itself while even the previous one was nothing but a conjecture on part of the very same techtubers. We're just going into a different direction now, instead of "it should be cheaper because it's the same size as a chip on 180nm from 2010!" we're at "it should be cheaper because Nvidia can sponsor our hobby!" Both are just wrong and yet here we are at another loop of this clicks/views farming misinformation machine.

 

[Sega_Model_4]

That's not "opinion journalism", it's you saying stuff which has no basis or merit just because you personally think it's true. "Opinion journalism" would be you providing an opinion based on information or knowledge you have whether it's public - and so you can refer to that or present it prior to giving your opinion - or private, in which case a viewer can decide whether to believe you or not, and this is usually a result of your previous statements and opinions originating from similar private info turning out to be correct.

Just saying things like "hey, why not a commercial company sponsor our gaming hobbies with their money which they have a lot of from other markets" isn't an opinion, it's a suggestion which is based on lack of understanding of how markets, commerce and a dozen of other things actually work. This is little more than an indication of the person suggesting this not being very smart - or in case of these techtuber guys being intentionally as "smart" as the masses which give them clicks and views by validating their own myths and wrong assumptions.

The latter has become especially annoying lately as it's nothing more than a feedback loop of myths regurgitating again and again inside the same echo chambers to the point where no one seem to have any inclination to actually check if these myths are based on actual data or if they are just based on their own previous iterations.

Last time everyone were "expecting" a different perf/price while not giving any reason why such expectations were plausible at this point in time aside from "it was like that 10 years ago!" and now this expectation seem to repeat itself while even the previous one was nothing but a conjecture on part of the very same techtubers. We're just going into a different direction now, instead of "it should be cheaper because it's the same size as a chip on 180nm from 2010!" we're at "it should be cheaper because Nvidia can sponsor our hobby!" Both are just wrong and yet here we are at another loop of this clicks/views farming misinformation machine.

Seriously, you need to look in a dictionary before saying what opinion journalism is or isn't. Everything you're talking about is another type of journalism.

Opinion journalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Opinion doesn't need to be objective, it doesn't need to be based on facts, it doesn't even need to be true.
In my opinion, it seems that what hurt more was the fact that it was a criticism of Nvidia rather than necessarily the presenter's opinion. So all this discrediting because of an opinion is merely elitism.

Which makes all of us here journalists. I’ll add it to my resume

Yes, forums are a type of journalism, citizen journalism, where forum members are playing an active role in the process of collecting, reporting, analyzing, and disseminating news and information. Some journalists, especially in the gaming field, use forums as a source of information, as many users make their work easier by already acting as journalists.

 

[Cappuccino]

I agree that “ngreedia” isn’t particularly hard hitting journalism. ‘Greed’ is a fake concept in business, every firm is going to be as ‘greedy’ as the market allows them to be. That’s just how demand and supply curves work (although it’s a bit more complicated since this isn’t a perfectly competitive market hence why we have things like MSRP and supply restraints and whatnot).

That said, this generation is expensive and not worth it imo, and I think it’s valid to just say that. We don’t have to wrap it up in a moral argument about Nvidia and greed or whatever, just say it’s a bad product for a bad price and move on.

The other side of this debate though are people arguing the gradual price increase over the past 6-7 years is just due to Moores Law and physics are also just as incorrect as the ‘ngreedia’ people. Nvidia doesn’t have to price things this way, they do this because PC gaming has become a luxury hobby and people are willing to pay those prices. Nvidia isn’t morally or legally obligated to sell us well-priced products, but they aren’t pricing them high because they *have* to in order to make a profit or whatever like some people act like.

 

[homerdog]

Are there any 5060Ti 8GB reviews yet? I guess NVIDIA is not providing them to reviewers.