But, what about the comments about more headroom with the .15 micron process?
And what about these rumored ATI products?
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/articles/headlines/Hardware/1994/
NV30 delayed - Official
- Thread starter DrT
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But, what about the comments about more headroom with the .15 micron process?
And what about these rumored ATI products?
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/articles/headlines/Hardware/1994/
Noko: well, there's a lot of electricity in the air actually... 
if we look now what could be out when NV30 ships on late January (for example...)
- Matrox has something coming... I wish I could be more exact but I just can't.
- S3 Columbia with full DX9 and QBM
- SiS Xabre II with full DX9.
- Trident XP4
looking nice, don't you think? this looked like pretty booring autumn/winter but now it looks like to be something more. ( maybe mostly because I have at last afford to upgrade my own card. )
if we look now what could be out when NV30 ships on late January (for example...)- Matrox has something coming... I wish I could be more exact but I just can't.
- S3 Columbia with full DX9 and QBM
- SiS Xabre II with full DX9.
- Trident XP4
looking nice, don't you think?
this looked like pretty booring autumn/winter but now it looks like to be something more. ( maybe mostly because I have at last afford to upgrade my own card. )Joe DeFuria
Legend
Yeah, I'm starting to lose interest in Comdex. It's not only unlikely that we'll see actual hardware benchmarked, but I also wouldn't count on an disclosure of anticipated clock speeds. (Or if they do disclose, they will only be estimates.)
At least we should get the final word on the bus width though.
At least we should get the final word on the bus width though.
DaveBaumann said:
what about this?
http://www4.tomshardware.com/business/02q3/020925/atimojo-10.html
Yes its Toms (i dislike linking from Dr. Pabst as quality down the toilet)
but the key in this is ..
"JC - The industry has a natural pulse that revolves around six-month cycles. OEMs update their products on this basis. This is driven by the buying patterns of the users. The way we did it was to have two design teams, one on the East Coast and one here on the West Coast, in Silicon Valley. The Silicon Valley team is the same one that worked on the Nintendo GameCube.
THG -So, that is the ArtX folks?
JC - Yes. "
So we have parallel development teams working on alternating 6 month cycles. Doesn't that increase the likleyhood given *roughly* august or so for 9700 going into productionso why wouldn't it be - paper / limited launch Januaryish with an actual launch march or so for an NV30 actual response next generation ATI Product?
Seems reasonable of course product cycles were made to be broken.
megadrive0088
Regular
prediction time:
ATI has a higher clocked R300, with DDRII, and much more refined drivers, to meet NV30's launch. either on .13u or .15u
ATI introduces .13u R350 in spring with 2nd TMU per pipeline, 8x FSAA,
and perhaps newer PS/VS versions that rivals NV30 as well as other features. DDRII is standard in all versions of R350.
ATI shows they are technology leader by introducing east coast team's
R-400 in the summer, with cards on store shelves by fall to replace the R300 line.
All while Nvidia only has NV30 varients all year long, including a speed binned NV30 Ti in the fall.
just my guesses and speculation, with no real info of course, but i think 2003 will be something along these lines. Not even getting into surprises from Martrox, 3Dlabs/Creative, Imagination/PowerVR or others
ATI has a higher clocked R300, with DDRII, and much more refined drivers, to meet NV30's launch. either on .13u or .15u
ATI introduces .13u R350 in spring with 2nd TMU per pipeline, 8x FSAA,
and perhaps newer PS/VS versions that rivals NV30 as well as other features. DDRII is standard in all versions of R350.
ATI shows they are technology leader by introducing east coast team's
R-400 in the summer, with cards on store shelves by fall to replace the R300 line.
All while Nvidia only has NV30 varients all year long, including a speed binned NV30 Ti in the fall.
just my guesses and speculation, with no real info of course, but i think 2003 will be something along these lines. Not even getting into surprises from Martrox, 3Dlabs/Creative, Imagination/PowerVR or others
I'm guessing that a R300 with ~1 Ghz DDRII and a ~400 MHz core would be equal to or outpace an nv30. Especially with matured drivers. (Just look at the current state of "truform" on the r300, it's as crappy as it was when software emulating it on my 7200: which leads me to belive that it's, badabing, badaboom: software emulated)
Especially if the nv30 only has a 128 bit bus.
Personally I dont give a rats ass for the "refined" PS and VS specs of the nv30. We all saw how much good that did for the 8500
(comparing PS 1.1 to 1.4 which is a pretty big "jump", perhaps not as large as between 2.0 and "nv30" though, I dunno?)
Especially if the nv30 only has a 128 bit bus.
Personally I dont give a rats ass for the "refined" PS and VS specs of the nv30. We all saw how much good that did for the 8500
(comparing PS 1.1 to 1.4 which is a pretty big "jump", perhaps not as large as between 2.0 and "nv30" though, I dunno?)
DaveBaumann said:
I have a pretty clear memory of ATi personnel stating specifically that the sucessor to the R300 would be released earlier than prior new parts had been introduced. The person could have been mistaken or plans could have changed (or may be changed depending on how the NV30 fares against the R300), but personally I would bet on a new card with a number >9700 available for purchase for the consumer space in the first half of the next year. EDIT: Hmm...well to avoid confusion with your wording, let me rephrase that as " > R300".
and now NVIDIA Reports Losses for the Third Quarter Fiscal Year 2003... maybe they got the wrong parts from 3dfx
I have to assume all you guys hold either NVIDIA or ATI stocks. Otherwise, I fail to see the excitement over who-is-delaying-what-product and who-is-on-top.
Or you guys simply like discussing this sort of thing (which, again, I fail to understand, even if you have time to burn).
Or you guys simply like discussing this sort of thing (which, again, I fail to understand, even if you have time to burn).
Perhaps you should look at the why of this lossesmat said:and now NVIDIA Reports Losses for the Third Quarter Fiscal Year 2003... maybe they got the wrong parts from 3dfx
Joe-
Haha. Yeah, I bet they are planning to unveil Scene 1 of their War and Peace spoof video next week.
Reverend-
Wow, as a gamer I'm very surprised by this assumption.
Better/faster hardware means fierce competition. Fierce competition means two things-
1) Rivals trying to "outdo" each other on features and technology.
2) Rivals trying to undercut pricing with the other to capture market share.
As gamers, we want good performance and incredible visuals.. even in existing games, thanks to antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.. We're all waiting patiently for that day to arrive but it still hasn't.
I'm quite frankly very tired of trees popping off and on in the distance on my GeForce4, and big chunks of chain link fences missing on my 9700 pro. I'm also sick and tired of white seams or other such ugliness that a V5/5500 doesnt exhibit AT ALL with supersampling.
It's easy to try and capitalize fictional "how far we've come" declarations when it's been at the expense of taking several steps backwards... combined with mass marketing.
If it is going to take the big IHV's a 60gb/s bandwidth card, multi-chip for $650 to deliver that V5 IQ + anisotropic filtering and superior edge AA, then so be it. The faster the NV30 hits the shelves and the better it is, the sooner ATI will counter with an even better product.. and the cycle repeats... until the Promised Land(tm) has been delivered.
The problem is, as gamers, we have been waiting patiently for about 3 years now for that promised land.. and while all the nay-sayers will quickly discount the reality with fanboi phrases, superiority declarations, intangible featureset touting, and delcarations of problems caused are due to coding obsolescence... it is ALL proven factually incorrect by simply going to the store, buying just about ANY game that CAME OUT IN THE PAST TWO WEEKS and clearly illustrating the problems... specifically.
My expectations aren't Toy Story or Hollywood cinematics.. as has been promised over and over again, but substantially less. I simply want Rally Sport Challenge, CFS3, UT2003 and possibly Doom3 to look absolutely smooth/clean, with playable performance and without artifacting/noise and compromise.. the past 2 years of games would be an added bonus.
That is why the NV30's release and one-upmanship is of essential interest to non-stock holders, but instead gamers.. as well as general 3D enthusiasts.
Haha. Yeah, I bet they are planning to unveil Scene 1 of their War and Peace spoof video next week.
Reverend-
Wow, as a gamer I'm very surprised by this assumption.
Better/faster hardware means fierce competition. Fierce competition means two things-
1) Rivals trying to "outdo" each other on features and technology.
2) Rivals trying to undercut pricing with the other to capture market share.
As gamers, we want good performance and incredible visuals.. even in existing games, thanks to antialiasing and anisotropic filtering.. We're all waiting patiently for that day to arrive but it still hasn't.
I'm quite frankly very tired of trees popping off and on in the distance on my GeForce4, and big chunks of chain link fences missing on my 9700 pro. I'm also sick and tired of white seams or other such ugliness that a V5/5500 doesnt exhibit AT ALL with supersampling.
It's easy to try and capitalize fictional "how far we've come" declarations when it's been at the expense of taking several steps backwards... combined with mass marketing.
If it is going to take the big IHV's a 60gb/s bandwidth card, multi-chip for $650 to deliver that V5 IQ + anisotropic filtering and superior edge AA, then so be it. The faster the NV30 hits the shelves and the better it is, the sooner ATI will counter with an even better product.. and the cycle repeats... until the Promised Land(tm) has been delivered.
The problem is, as gamers, we have been waiting patiently for about 3 years now for that promised land.. and while all the nay-sayers will quickly discount the reality with fanboi phrases, superiority declarations, intangible featureset touting, and delcarations of problems caused are due to coding obsolescence... it is ALL proven factually incorrect by simply going to the store, buying just about ANY game that CAME OUT IN THE PAST TWO WEEKS and clearly illustrating the problems... specifically.
My expectations aren't Toy Story or Hollywood cinematics.. as has been promised over and over again, but substantially less. I simply want Rally Sport Challenge, CFS3, UT2003 and possibly Doom3 to look absolutely smooth/clean, with playable performance and without artifacting/noise and compromise.. the past 2 years of games would be an added bonus.
That is why the NV30's release and one-upmanship is of essential interest to non-stock holders, but instead gamers.. as well as general 3D enthusiasts.
why not , i just spent 450 on a card in sept. alright 400 but i had to get a dumb remote with it ... But yea I would. Just like there are people who spend 400 on a intel chip when they can get amd at the same performace for half the price. Its just like there are people driving on the road with $150,000+ cars
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