NPD September 2007

[Pozer]

I find PS3's offerings and game library more creative and more appropriate for consoles, and I believe it is ignored due to the negative image low sales have created on itself.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting the PC experience in your living room. I'm not sure what is or isn't appropriate for consoles. If someone would rather sit on their couch and play Rainbow Six than at a desk why is that somehow more lowbrow than collecting mana in fruity jprg. Many console owners are refugees from the $500 video card upgrade cycle who are getting old and rather use that money for a mortgage payment. Besides the 360 library has grown way past the 'bald space marine' and dumbed down PC ports cliche. Its to the point now where you almost can't buy and play every game you are interested in. A phenom that existed on the playstation1 + 2, nes, snes and genny.

on a second note I don't think many gamers (like myself) ever considered the ps3 library bad... just up to this point nothing has screamed pay $600 to play me . Had sony released a decently priced console many people would be enjoying 'underrated games' like Resistance. It was sony's choice to act like they had a monopoly when they didn't. Sony asked the gamers to flip the bill so Sony could clinch a movie distribution empire for the next 10 years and the gamers said no I'm not giving you an extra $200 when I can get a comparable experience somewhere else.

i wouldn't say the 360 is where its at right now because MS did alot right. It's because sony did so much wrong.

 

[fireshot]

Between 360 and PS3 this holiday, it all boils down to this,

Will the general public/videogamers plonk down money for:

Halo3 or Haze
Mass Effect or Folklore
Madden@60 or Madden@30
Forza2/PGR4 or an unpolished GT5 demo
GH3 with all bells and whistles or cutdown GH3
Just-about-every-3rdparty-games-performing-better or downgraded ports?

Like i said, there is no compelling reasons to tell the masses to choose PS3(even if we wanted to). Maybe for the Bluray player but ...! if only..

Sony left the backdoor open(even 1 year delayed launch..) and MS came and cash in with the games.

The gap is widening that i cannot see PS3 ever closing it. It is all over for Sony in North America, and that is discounting the Wii. How long will the 3rd parties stay patient with the "Playstation Brand" ... and Cell programming?

 

[TheChefO]

So, to sum this up, Sony hasn't really made any misjudgements, it's reviewers and consumers that are wrong and overlooking the better platform?

That's a pretty tough argument to swallow. 3.3 million people bought Halo, and there are many other games that have sold very well and received very positive reviews. The consumers are speaking with their wallets. They're buying what they like.

I don't think Eye of Judgement would receive any more praise on any other system. It's a niche product for people interested in card games. LPB on the other hand, receives widely good impressions and would only help any system it was available for. The extent it will help is arguable.

yep.

Sony needs to get their elite devs crankin and living up to their reputation. They have a very capable machine and have had ages to get up and running with killer software as they did last gen.

Nitch titles are great and all, but these types of games really shouldn't be added to a platform until the userbase is large enough to support them, and that normally doesn't happen until the price is at a mainstream point (<$200).

Sony needs to focus more on the KZ2/Motorstorm types for now. LBP is great and all, but umm ... that's not gonna move $400 consoles.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't see anything wrong with wanting the PC experience in your living room. I'm not sure what is or isn't appropriate for consoles. If someone would rather sit on their couch and play Rainbow Six than at a desk why is that somehow more lowbrow than collecting mana in fruity jprg. Many console owners are refugees from the $500 video card upgrade cycle who are getting old and rather use that money for a mortgage payment. Besides the 360 library has grown way past the 'bald space marine' and dumbed down PC ports cliche. Its to the point now where you almost can't buy and play every game you are interested in. A phenom that existed on the playstation1 + 2, nes, snes and genny.

There's a lot of good reasons to own the 360. I also don't buy the argument that the Sony titles are somehow more suitable for consoles. People are obviously proving that wrong by buying a whole lot of 360 titles.

on a second note I don't think many gamers (like myself) ever considered the ps3 library bad... just up to this point nothing has screamed pay $600 to play me . Had sony released a decently priced console many people would be enjoying 'underrated games' like Resistance. It was sony's choice to act like they had a monopoly when they didn't. Sony asked the gamers to flip the bill so Sony could clinch a movie distribution empire for the next 10 years and the gamers said no I'm not giving you an extra $200 when I can get a comparable experience somewhere else.

This is also true. I think the gamers buying the 360 know all about the PS3 library. The people who invest such a huge amount of money into a console have done their research. I don't think the PS3 is bad, it's obviously just not as compelling as the 360, as is shown by the sales.

i wouldn't say the 360 is where its at right now because MS did alot right. It's because sony did so much wrong.

I think that's downplaying MS too much. They had a good balanced strategy this generation. It's a combination of Microsoft having a good plan, and Sony missing the mark a little bit.

 

[TheChefO]

It was sony's choice to act like they had a monopoly when they didn't. Sony asked the gamers to flip the bill so Sony could clinch a movie distribution empire for the next 10 years and the gamers said no I'm not giving you an extra $200 when I can get a comparable experience somewhere else...

yep.

Good thing for them is they are setup for ps4 though.

 

[Scott_Arm]

yep.

Sony needs to get their elite devs crankin and living up to their reputation. They have a very capable machine and have had ages to get up and running with killer software as they did last gen.

Nitch titles are great and all, but these types of games really shouldn't be added to a platform until the userbase is large enough to support them, and that normally doesn't happen until the price is at a mainstream point (<$200).

Sony needs to focus more on the KZ2/Motorstorm types for now. LBP is great and all, but umm ... that's not gonna move $400 consoles.

All Sony needs is Metal Gear 4 and the next Final Fantasy as a flagship, and then have a solid library around them. Once that happens, there will be a more compelling reason to buy the PS3. I don't know if that will be enough to catch up to the 360, but it will be a much brighter future.

I don't think Sony will in any way tank this generation. They'll have success, I just doubt they'll regain market leadership.

 

[fireshot]

It was sony's choice to act like they had a monopoly when they didn't. Sony asked the gamers to flip the bill so Sony could clinch a movie distribution empire for the next 10 years and the gamers said no I'm not giving you an extra $200 when I can get a comparable experience somewhere else.

That, my friend, is why PS3 is down in the shithole that is today. Sony should never have launched PS3 last year. Just imagine a PS3 some time this period, with costs already under control(maybe a slight graphics chipset and memory upgrade), more mature development tools for everybody, more time to polish up their own big budget titles(HS, Lair) rather than let the million dollars go down the drain...

Though we know, they had to come out with something cheap and with a massive mindshare previously to push the Bluray format. Sadly for them, even that did not go as plan.

 

[TheChefO]

All Sony needs is Metal Gear 4 and the next Final Fantasy as a flagship, and then have a solid library around them. Once that happens, there will be a more compelling reason to buy the PS3. I don't know if that will be enough to catch up to the 360, but it will be a much brighter future.

I don't think Sony will in any way tank this generation. They'll have success, I just doubt they'll regain market leadership.

Agreed.

In fact, if they are able to introduce another price drop next spring along with MGS4 and GTA4, they could do very well for themselves. But I can't think of any scenario where MS couldn't answer their move with a counter move and keep the gap wide at this point.

next nextgen should be more interesting.

 

[Nesh]

I don't see anything wrong with wanting the PC experience in your living room. I'm not sure what is or isn't appropriate for consoles. If someone would rather sit on their couch and play Rainbow Six than at a desk why is that somehow more lowbrow than collecting mana in fruity jprg. Many console owners are refugees from the $500 video card upgrade cycle who are getting old and rather use that money for a mortgage payment. Besides the 360 library has grown way past the 'bald space marine' and dumbed down PC ports cliche. Its to the point now where you almost can't buy and play every game you are interested in. A phenom that existed on the playstation1 + 2, nes, snes and genny.

on a second note I don't think many gamers (like myself) ever considered the ps3 library bad... just up to this point nothing has screamed pay $600 to play me . Had sony released a decently priced console many people would be enjoying 'underrated games' like Resistance. It was sony's choice to act like they had a monopoly when they didn't. Sony asked the gamers to flip the bill so Sony could clinch a movie distribution empire for the next 10 years and the gamers said no I'm not giving you an extra $200 when I can get a comparable experience somewhere else.

i wouldn't say the 360 is where its at right now because MS did alot right. It's because sony did so much wrong.

Dont disagree with you.

I am not saying it is wrong. About the PC type of games on 360 I was pointing towards the fact that many of the top reviewed games on the 360 are that type of games. A quick glance of 360's top rated games, shows some exclusives (racing or shoot em up usually), and huge deal of multiplatform games (majority is also on PS3 btw). Apart from racing and sports games and a few other exceptions there is too many of those multiplatform games that are first person shooters and third person shooters.

It is not because MS did a great job at differentiating gaming more than Sony or bringing up anything new. These type of games existed on previous consoles too and wasnt their main strength.

If Sony did things better I doubt 360 would have been in the position it is now with the same games.

 

[TheChefO]

That, my friend, is why PS3 is down in the shithole that is today. Sony should never have launched PS3 last year. Just imagine a PS3 some time this period, with costs already under control(maybe a slight graphics chipset and memory upgrade), more mature development tools for everybody, more time to polish up their own big budget titles(HS, Lair) rather than let the million dollars go down the drain...

Though we know, they had to come out with something cheap and with a massive mindshare previously to push the Bluray format. Sadly for them, even that did not go as plan.

Waiting another year wouldn't have done any better for them. Dropping BR from ps3 would have. Also, getting their devs to take the competition more seriously would have as well.

They were just way too over confident (arrogant/greedy) going into this gen and took things for granted.

 

[TheChefO]

If Sony did things better I doubt 360 would have been in the position it is now with the same games.

I disagree.

Divergent and unique games are great, but they aren't the meat and potatos of the typical gamer. They need to have GREAT racers, shooters, sports games, action games etc, THEN add the quirky experimental games into the mix, but not before.

 

[fireshot]

Waiting another year wouldn't have done any better for them. Dropping BR from ps3 would have. Also, getting their devs to take the competition more seriously would have as well.

They were just way too over confident (arrogant/greedy) going into this gen and took things for granted.

I think it would, if you look at 360(their direct competitor) sales for the period, it was not exactly burning up the charts.

What has happened with rushing for 06 launch, is that the everything surrounding the PS3 continue to recieve more flak from all sides. Something they could have avoided by holding off the launch until the console is more presentable. Things such as a small memory upgrade would have gone a long way with developers' relationship.

 

[one]

on a second note I don't think many gamers (like myself) ever considered the ps3 library bad... just up to this point nothing has screamed pay $600 to play me . Had sony released a decently priced console many people would be enjoying 'underrated games' like Resistance. It was sony's choice to act like they had a monopoly when they didn't. Sony asked the gamers to flip the bill so Sony could clinch a movie distribution empire for the next 10 years and the gamers said no I'm not giving you an extra $200 when I can get a comparable experience somewhere else.

i wouldn't say the 360 is where its at right now because MS did alot right. It's because sony did so much wrong.

By "so much wrong" do you mean any other thing than the $600 price tag and the scarcity of games?

 

[Pozer]

Waiting another year wouldn't have done any better for them. Dropping BR from ps3 would have. Also, getting their devs to take the competition more seriously would have as well.

They were just way too over confident (arrogant/greedy) going into this gen and took things for granted.

I disagree. I thinking launching this xmas with a $399 and $499 sku and 1GB of Ram would have done wonders. By delaying the launch the 360 would have alot of FUD surrounding it never letting it get a foot hold in the eyes gamers and devs. The 1gb of ram would have made multiconsole ports and 1st party software look significantly sharper on the ps3. It would have made the whole 360=dreamcast comparison much more plausible. Plus a higher clocked RSX as well.

Also BR costs are under control now. Plus HD market penetration is good enough now it would have been a more perfect time to push that. But hindsight is 20/20.

 

[one]

I disagree. I thinking launching this xmas with a $399 and $499 sku and 1GB of Ram would have done wonders. By delaying the launch the 360 would have alot of FUD surrounding it never letting it get a foot hold in the eyes gamers and devs. The 1gb of ram would have made multiconsole ports and 1st party software look significantly sharper on the ps3. It would have made the whole 360=dreamcast comparison much more plausible. Plus a higher clocked RSX as well.

Also BR costs are under control now. Plus HD market penetration is good enough now it would have been a more perfect time to push that. But hindsight is 20/20.

I think that's your advice for PS3 and can be an answer to my post above, but don't you wonder why the Blu-ray costs are under control by now?

 

[Pozer]

I think that's your advice for PS3 and can be an answer to my post above, but don't you wonder why the Blu-ray costs are under control by now?

I guess they are under control because there are more producers of the special laser used by both hd-dvd and br. Competition and availability brought down the cost of parts. (my guess)

But I don't think sony should have launched BR this xmas. Just the ps3. I think they should have launch BR when they did and fought hard with standalone players.

 

[TheChefO]

It would have made the whole 360=dreamcast comparison much more plausible. Plus a higher clocked RSX as well...

Devs and gamers wouldn't have waited around 2 years for Sony to grace us with their presence. Sorry, but it would have backfired. I think the only reason you saw slow sales from xb360 is they knew ps3 had no shot at increasing sales, thus they held off on any price drops until now and even then, it was minimal.

Had Sony been sitting on ps3 until later this year, you would have seen a more aggressive price plan from MS and consequently, better sales.

Devs would have been very familiar with xb360 dev kits and it would be entrenched as the lead platform.

Also xb360 software had no problem selling very well prior to ps3 and their hardware was moving very well too. It only started to stall after they dragged their feet on a pricedrop.

Don't forget, DC did not have EA and EA is a very close partner with MS.


The winning formula would have been to release in 2005 with dvd and no HDD and with their internal studios turning their full attention to the platform in 2003. Doing so would have enabled a $300 MSRP and a flood of games in 2005 on ...

game, set and match.

 

[fireshot]

Devs and gamers wouldn't have waited around 2 years for Sony to grace us with their presence. Sorry, but it would have backfired. I think the only reason you saw slow sales from xb360 is they knew ps3 had no shot at increasing sales, thus they held off on any price drops until now and even then, it was minimal.

Had Sony been sitting on ps3 until later this year, you would have seen a more aggressive price plan from MS and consequently, better sales.

Devs would have been very familiar with xb360 dev kits and it would be entrenched as the lead platform.

Also xb360 software had no problem selling very well prior to ps3 and their hardware was moving very well too. It only started to stall after they dragged their feet on a pricedrop.

Don't forget, DC did not have EA and EA is a very close partner with MS.


The winning formula would have been to release in 2005 with dvd and no HDD and with their internal studios turning their full attention to the platform in 2003. Doing so would have enabled a $300 MSRP and a flood of games in 2005 on ...

game, set and match.

I would take the Bluray drive and HDD. Thank you.
A PS3 without them, and launching in 2005, would feel light for a next gen console. I think the PSP(and NDS) would have kept gaming fresh for the masses until a full HD console is fully ready.

The way i see it, the market is not, just, ready for HD and Broadband gaming, well at least for 2005-2006. I think the current period, would be the better time to launch a HD console. Sony just blew what could potentially be a killer console. I would hazard a guess all their old in-fighting kinda hit them hard this time. Real hard.

 

[patsu]

Seems a bit late.

Would be nice if they are ready for 2007. if not, 2008 is fine too. As it stands right now, I already have a backlog of PS3 games and it's growing.

As it is, Sony may have to consider putting up cash just to get a decent port, forget exclusive.

Nope... _if_ Sony's going to throw money, they might as well get their money's worth (and ensure good performance). So just pay more for exclusive content. It's more worthwhile. Compared to last year, they now have a larger installed base, and on-going game royalties/revenue anyway.

I'd have to say that for as big and talented as Sony's internal devs are, they have been way too slow to bring quality games to ps3.

It's their first try on that spiffy architecture and tools. Doesn't take too long for Insomniac to come up with a second one. ;-) Quality games are also here for PS3 already... if you have completed gems like Folklore, Everyday Shooter, Resistance, MotorStorm, etc. Sure there are shortfalls, but some of them are already above average and special.

 

[patsu]

Will the general public/videogamers plonk down money for:

Halo3 or Haze
Mass Effect or Folklore
Madden@60 or Madden@30
Forza2/PGR4 or an unpolished GT5 demo
GH3 with all bells and whistles or cutdown GH3
Just-about-every-3rdparty-games-performing-better or downgraded ports?

Nope... there is also R&C (What is the equivalent on 360 ?). How about Uncharted ? (which is causing waves too over at GAF and the press) Eye of Judgment ? Wipeout HD ? UT3 looks like it's going to slip. Also, don't forget great titles like Warhawk, Resistance, MotorStorm, Heavenly Sword (short but sweet by most accounts) too. They all add up to the package. That is why Sony need to consolidate the experiences since it is so convenient for people to ignore the goodies

Like i said, there is no compelling reasons to tell the masses to choose PS3(even if we wanted to). Maybe for the Bluray player but ...! if only..

Sony left the backdoor open(even 1 year delayed launch..) and MS came and cash in with the games.

The gap is widening that i cannot see PS3 ever closing it. It is all over for Sony in North America, and that is discounting the Wii. How long will the 3rd parties stay patient with the "Playstation Brand" ... and Cell programming?

What about Asia + Europe ? US is experiencing economic difficulties too. That is actually my most worrying factor.