North Korea, a ticking time bomb

DemoCoder

Veteran
(note: I find it interesting that North Korea lowered the military height requirement to something like 4.3ft (1.3 m))

Time's running out for North Korea. Its weapons are old and its people are worn down. Any attempt to cordon off its ships may be all the provocation it needs for a last-ditch nuclear strike. Hamish McDonald reports.


Across North Korea at 7am each day, loudspeakers come to life and blare a rousing song titled 10 Million Human Bombs for Kim Il-sung and, according to recent visitors, it is common to see people of all ages singing along fervently. That Kim Il-sung has been dead for nine years does not seem to have diminished the song's appeal.

Kim was the communist guerilla leader who, with the help of Soviet occupation forces, founded the North Korean state in 1945. From being the isolated nation's "Great Leader", Kim has now been promoted to "Eternal Leader". In ceremonies last week, on the anniversary of his death, he was extolled by state propaganda as the "greatest statesman of the 20th century".

With his late wife, the senior Kim has been elevated into a trinity along with their son, the current leader Kim Jong-il, in what some regard more as a state religion than just a bizarre ideological variant of Marxism-Leninism: it even has its own nativity scene, set in a mountain-top log cabin during wartime Japanese rule.

North Korea's Juche or self-reliance doctrine borrows these and other elements of Christianity and combines them with the patriarchism of the ancient Chinese sage Confucius and a millenarian Korean sect called Chondogyo. Kim Jong-il is the chief shaman or priestly miracle worker in this quasi state religion.

"It's a lot worse than even George W. Bush thinks it is," says a senior Western diplomat who frequently visits Pyongyang. "It is something very depressing to the human spirit. They want everyone to think the same thing at the same time, and they are close to getting it. That's what makes it horrible." The tight grip of this leadership cult, and the suicidal militancy expressed in the song, make this and many other observers in the region wonder whether the Bush Administration really understands the beast it is now tackling through hardline diplomacy and tightening inspections of North Korean export shipments. "The idea that this is a ... state that only needs a prod to collapse is false," the diplomat said.



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Despite North Korea's failed economy and the misery of most of its 22.5 million citizens - trapped in poverty and decayed housing and ravaged by malnutrition and periodic famine, power blackouts and diseases such as tuberculosis and cholera - its core belief still burns bright in the country's self-isolation from the world. The cult tells North Koreans they are a special people who evolved separately to other humans, according to neolithic "discoveries" by North Korean archaeologists. They learn that they are ruled by special leaders and that the hardship is merely the prelude to an early paradise that will come through a sudden convulsion.

Elites at the top of a social ranking divided into 54 classes - from Kim Jong-il's inner circle down to hereditary class enemies and collaborators - are, meanwhile, kept quiet with privileges and supplies denied the ordinary population. "They are very eager to keep the regime in existence," says Choi Jin Wook, a senior researcher at Seoul's Korea Institute for National Unification. "If it fails, it's the end of their privileges."

Also fully keyed up is the formidable war machine:

The 1.2 million-strong Korean People's Army (KPA) poised along the Demilitarised Zone, the 50-year-old truce line with South Korea;

The heavy industry that backs this force; and

The rapidly advancing missile and nuclear laboratories that make the only North Korean products anyone wants to buy.

In the past two months, Kim Jong-il has intensified his "army first" doctrine in which the KPA has effectively replaced the Communist Party as the key structure in the regime. This may signal that advocates of economic liberalisation in the trade and light industry ministries and the committees dealing with Asia-Pacific relations and flood rehabilitation have already lost out to the old-guard military-heavy industry camp.

But a clock is ticking in this war machine. The newest artillery, tanks and aircraft were supplied in the last days of the Soviet Union, and are more than a decade old. The struggle to shield heavy industry from North Korea's overall economic decline is getting harder. Even the human quality of the KPA is shrinking: the height requirement for new recruits is now 1.3 metres, reflecting the effects of nearly two decades of malnutrition.

"There is a critical crossover point some time in the future - which we don't know and which we can't know - where the North Koreans calculate they won't be able to fight the Americans and win," the diplomat said. The idea of a "use it or lose it" deadline for North Korean conventional war capability adds a frightening new dimension to the crisis over the US-led effort to eliminate Pyongyang's nuclear threat.

Another incalculable element is the extent to which the KPA's top generals share the widespread expectation that the millenarian event will be the reunification of the two halves of Korea, under the Kim dynasty. Some may have their private doubts, but the KPA's doctrine is based on quick and massive attack and counter-attack, hoping to replicate its rapid dash towards southern Pusan in 1950 after catching the American garrison and South Korean military off guard. That drew a counter-invasion by the US general Douglas MacArthur from Japan. MacArthur later requested permission to use nuclear weapons when China entered the war (and was refused and sacked by President Harry Truman). The increasing reliance of the present-day US military on precision air strikes and its unwillingness to carry casualties is said to be encouraging some KPA generals to think they could prevail, helped by Korea's difficult terrain and weather.

There is deep unease in South Korean political and military circles at the realignment of the 37,000-strong US force in South Korea, particularly the planned shift of the 15,000 frontline troops from the Joint Security Area of the DMZ, which directly defends Seoul, to a base further south. They worry about removing the reassuring "tripwire" which has long meant that if any war starts, the US is immediately involved and taking heavy casualties. The US Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, says this is obsolete thinking and that the redeployment will allow US forces to respond more effectively to attack.

A further unknown deadline, which may be the real restraint on the KPA, is the point at which North Korea is able to deliver nuclear weapons. A report compiled for the White House, Nuclear Posture Review, and leaked in 2001, indicated that the US could use nuclear weapons on non-nuclear adversaries in a wide range of contingencies. It may have been that review, far more than Bush's later "axis of evil" rhetoric, that provided the impetus for Pyongyang to speed up and diversify its nuclear weapons effort so that it would have a counter-deterrent.

Experts don't dispute that North Korea had collected enough plutonium to make one or two bombs by the early 1990s. This week's report by South Korea's intelligence chief that the North had conducted 70 tests of the non-nuclear trigger of a bomb - the conventional explosive that sharply compresses the plutonium core and sets off nuclear fission - is new only in the number. Such tests have been going on since 1983. How many have occurred recently would have been far more interesting, but that was not revealed.

Some South Korean analysts think any bomb may yet be an unwieldy, untested device that could not fit the 1000-kg maximum payload of the North's proven medium-range missiles, which could hit US bases in Japan. But one expert, a Swiss nuclear physicist and nuclear proliferation analyst, Andre Gsponer, thinks this underestimates the extent to which North Korea can use published data on nuclear weapons. "North Korea has displayed excellent technical skills in building long-range missiles, something much more difficult than building atomic bombs," Gsponer said. "I would think that the weight of the North Korean plutonium-239 bombs would be in the range of 500 kg to 1 tonne, at most."

North Korea made its open claim to have nuclear weapons during talks with US and Chinese officials in Beijing in April. That galvanised China into ever-more-intense efforts to find a diplomatic solution to the crisis which had begun the previous October when Pyongyang privately confessed to the US that it was building a second path to nuclear weapons - centrifuge enrichment of its plentiful uranium reserves.

Until then, the Chinese had believed Pyongyang's nuclear rhetoric was bluff, aimed at getting Washington to deliver the power stations and other aid promised in the 1994 "framework" agreement in return for a cap on North Korea's nuclear programs. Aside from a small oil contribution, that aid never arrived: the Clinton administration had made the promise expecting the Pyongyang regime to collapse before it had to be delivered.

The new Chinese leadership under President Hu Jintao has fewer sentimental ties to North Korea than Beijing's old guard. Further, a nuclear North Korea threatens Chinese interests because of its potential to provoke a lurch to the right by Japan, which has eight tonnes of plutonium in storage and the capacity to go nuclear within weeks.

In March, Beijing turned off the spigot on its oil pipeline into North Korea for three days to reinforce a warning against resuming ballistic missile tests. Since then, the Chinese Communist Party's "leading group" on North Korea, formed in February and chaired by Hu himself, has studied all options to head off a Korean war because it would be ruinous to China, too. China's tearaway 7 to 8 per cent annual growth is founded on massive trade and investment links with the US and its strategic partners. Even China's trade with South Korea totalled $US44 billion ($67 billion) last year, and is expected to reach an annual $US100 billion in five years. As well as cutting this off, a Korean war would force the closure to international shipping of all Chinese ports north of Shanghai, including the major export outlets of Qingdao, Tianjin and Dalian.

As revealed this week in the Herald, these studies included the feasibility of China's People's Liberation Army conducting a lightning strike to disarm North Korea. The conclusion was that the PLA did not have the logistics capability to reach the DMZ fast enough to prevent the North Korean military attacking south to engage US troops. Hence a frantic Chinese drive to get the Americans and North Koreans back to a second round of talks.

China's changed attitude is revealed in a directive recently issued to the Chinese media by the central propaganda directorate: "Regarding the DPRK [North Korea] nuclear crisis, China and DPRK now have divided opinions on many issues, so we require media not to play on this nuclear issue and stick to the Xinhua [official news agency] version only."

The intensifying economic blockade of North Korea by the US and its allies - with the notable exception of a reluctant and worried South Korea - brings new threats of military conflict. Japan's recent deployment of squads of safety inspectors to check North Korean shipping has effectively blocked a sizable flow of cash and high-tech goods provided by pachinko (pinball) operators and other donors in the
pro-Pyongyang camp of Japan's ethnic Koreans.

The "proliferation security initiative" discussed by the US, Australia, Japan and several European nations at this week's Brisbane meeting threatens a more critical cut. A naval cordon around North Korea would threaten Pyongyang's major source of hard currency if it stopped its $US600 million-a-year ballistic missile exports to the Middle East and Pakistan.

The Prime Minister, John Howard, seems to be backing away from Canberra's earlier enthusiasm for such a blockade. And such a blockade could have some "nasty consequences", the senior Western diplomat warned this week. "It is entirely likely that those ships in the blockade will be attacked by North Korea."

He pointed out that North Korea's small navy wielded some potent weapons and its vessels were crewed by fanatical regime supporters willing to carry out suicidal missions. Indeed, a modified North Korean fishing boat, seized after a recent clash with Japan and put on public display, included a secret missile compartment and extra-powerful engines. This recalls German raiders of World War II, such as the Kormoran, which sank the Australian cruiser Sydney with all hands in a close-range encounter in 1941.

The prospects of an early diplomatic solution are not good. At the Beijing talks in April, the North Koreans asked for a non-aggression pact and some $US3.5 billion in economic aid. They promised to respond with unspecified nuclear concessions once it started flowing. The Americans wanted a complete and verifiable closure of all nuclear programs before they would even discuss aid. A formal non-aggression treaty would have no hope of ratification by the US Senate.

"The situation is very different from 1994," said the Seoul unification institute's Choi, referring to the deal that ended the last North Korean nuclear crisis. The US is holding back, watching to see if North Korea crosses a "red line" by resuming reprocessing of its spent nuclear fuel stockpile to extract more plutonium. Pyongyang has meanwhile shown much of its hand.

"They do not have any more cards," Choi said. "Unless they escalate." But a dramatic move, such as reactivating the reprocessing plant or even conducting an underground bomb test, might convince Washington that containment was more realistic than diplomacy, and China might see its long-term interests as being in co-operating with a quarantine of its awkward ally.

Those who know the North Koreans say they are in a corner. "Do nothing and eventually they will collapse," the senior Western diplomat said. "Open up and they draw into question their social stability which is dependent on complete isolation. The conundrum is the reason why there are different factions arguing over how to go forward. The problem for all of them is that this regime cannot survive a breath of fresh air."
 
Bah such moves are more psychological.. 4'3" hhe I mean they want to recruit kids? Or then again with the poor diet adults could be in fact a bit short on average.

Totally against an economic blockade. Clinton should've owned up on the help (and\or gotten its local allies to help out). Those nuke tests cant happen soon enough.
 
pax said:
Bah such moves are more psychological.. 4'3" hhe I mean they want to recruit kids? Or then again with the poor diet adults could be in fact a bit short on average.

Totally against an economic blockade. Clinton should've owned up on the help (and\or gotten its local allies to help out). Those nuke tests cant happen soon enough.

How long are you willing to provide such aid to transform a nutty religious cult-state? Without a revolution, it could be a decade or more, which means the continued existence and virtual imprisonent of the people of the country, combined with continued blackmail of the West, and even after that, it is no guarantee that they aren't going to continue to develop the weapons anyway.

Unless of course you think that such a closed country is going to submit to an army of inspections like Iraq to verify that there is no underground nuke program.
 
Yes the country sounds a lot like cultural revolution china... they got over it and I dont see why NK cant as well over time. I have a bit of faith that any inroads into that country in the form of western investment to make products and services for export will go a long way to start opening it up.

We could at least try that before contemplating a confrontational road that could lead to war...
 
Um im not advocating anything. They have nukes its a virtual fact or very soon to be a fact. Testing them will put to rest a lot of the hot doggers that want war with NK.
 
pax said:
Yes the country sounds a lot like cultural revolution china... they got over it and I dont see why NK cant as well over time. I have a bit of faith that any inroads into that country in the form of western investment to make products and services for export will go a long way to start opening it up.

We could at least try that before contemplating a confrontational road that could lead to war...

No, it's way more extreme than Mao's china and even before China was "opened" it was still not as culturally isolated as NK.

NK's great leader died, and unlike what happened in China (Mao was repudiated), the former insane policies were continued and in some ways amplified.

Paying them off isn't going to stop them developing nukes. So it is inevitable that they will get them. So why prop them up? The US is frequently accused of propping up corrupt regimes and coddling tyrants. And the continued existence of this regime is just more misery prolonged for its people.

The idea that you're going to "open them up" like China with engagement I think is naive. North Koreans have been so throughly brainwashed and lied to by their government that they aren't even permitted to TALK to westerners who visit NK, and the NK government is paranoid about them learning anything about the outside world, which would easily cause a revolution.

What NK would do is take western money, run manufacturing plants in NK with virtual slave labour, export, and officials would skim the money and it would only serve the reinforce the support of the political class for the regime.

I highly doubt they are going to allow Western ownership and management of companies on their soil.
 
pax said:
Um im not advocating anything. They have nukes its a virtual fact or very soon to be a fact. Testing them will put to rest a lot of the hot doggers that want war with NK.


I doubt it. If they start working on missiles that can threaten the US, it is likely the US would launch conventional missile and airstrikes on their silos and radar installations. They could not retalliate against the US, only SK. The US won't tolerate NK nuclear missiles pointed at the US.

Also, the US would most likely seize NK shipping if proliferation was suspected. There's not much they could do about it.

Any strike on SK would likely be the end of the regime, and they know it, so most likely, they would have to just "take it" like Sudan, Libya, Iraq (Israeli bombing), since they have no effective means to achieve victory.

I think this NK situation is going to lead to another "Cuban Missile Crisis". NK is going to play their brinksmanship until the US forces them to back down. Whether that's an embargo or economic sanctions, I think this is going to go to the brink of war before it is resolved.
 
Well the level of poverty and desperation of the regime certainly are higher than was in Cuba. Im kinda tired to see that the only approach offered here is short term confrontation. I think we could give negociation and engagement at least 10 years.

As much as I hate to say it we need another Nixon. Im not so sure they wouldnt make some major hit on a US base in the region if the US struck first. Probably one based in SK. I mean look at how much a gambler Saddam was. He went so far as to refuse access to old stocks of chem\bios that eventually led to the official justification to take down his regime. Had Saddam had nukes you think he wouldnt have used them to protect his regime?

Id bet on NK retaliating to make the adversary pay a price if a massive air campaign (which would likely be needed) were attempted to take down NK's wmd programs. I dont think an air campign can do it in NK anymore than it could in Iraq. Any air campaign of the size needed will likely make the NK think its regime is seeing a pre cursor to all out invasion. Politically theres every reason for NK to think so once military action has begun.

They have the Bush pre emption doctrine that has been more than well advertised and they have seen the consequences of Saddams Iraq's inability or unwillingness to seriously strike back at the coalition to guide their thinking. If NK can, and Im pretty it can easily, it will strike back.
 
We can try at least to invest and see what happens. There are a few SK owned hotels in NK though as to who is managing them Im not sure. Saw that on a program on CBC a few weeks ago. Id bet there is a fairly large black market in that country. Cant have that much poverty and not lose some grip on the country or easily control the entire population to a 'complete' extent.

I dont see any serious attempts being tried on the economic front. Nothing in that vein has been seriously contemplated. I think its overgeneralizing to say the regime is beyond reform. They have China as a next door neigboor who has shown them the successful combination of economic liberalization AND preservation of the regime. WTH wouldnt they want that kind of success? 2 million dead out of 22 million or so in the last 10 years? They must obviously be desperate as to how long this abject poverty can last and the regime survive.

I read a little bit on Kim Jr. He doesnt sound that paranoid though the regime does make serious attempts on the police state bit. Id be willing to bet Kim wants 3 things. Poverty reduced thru western help\investment (essential for the regimes survival) all the while keeping his massive military complex in place and saving face in front of his subjects as to his inability to keep the country isolated and prosperous all at the same time.

Not an easy thing to do. And no one likes the idea of us helping him achieve all that but to risk even small scale nuclear war is much worse. I thnk we can easily acheive the trade off of controlled arms exports tho not new arms dev for his own regime. Tho that shouldnt be a prob if NK overcomes the worse of its poverty.

Any liberalization of the regime maybe a couple decades off. But I think its inevitable. I dont think they are so deluded they think they can survive in their isolation.
 
DemoCoder said:
I find it interesting that North Korea lowered the military height requirement to something like 4.3ft (1.3 m

They can fit down the tunnels the North doesn't have under the DMZ easier... ;)
 
As much as I hate to say it we need another Nixon. Im not so sure they wouldnt make some major hit on a US base in the region if the US struck first. Probably one based in SK. I mean look at how much a gambler Saddam was. He went so far as to refuse access to old stocks of chem\bios that eventually led to the official justification to take down his regime. Had Saddam had nukes you think he wouldnt have used them to protect his regime?

I am bit confused by some of your reasoning.

Democoder has already mentioned NK doesn't have the capacity to launch nukes to hit our soil. Even if they did they surely haven't the number of nukes to be effect as they could be shot down.

It seems clear any nuclear posturing by his regime will do nothing but harm him. China isn't going to want to aid Kim and his nuttery.

The faster we take out kim the less likely we are to have him attack an allied base.

Do you view him having the ability to attack an allied base on SK as beneficial? I would hope not. Kim having nukes isn't good for anyone.

To some degree i agree with one of your previous statements. The more Kim pressures for nuclear tests the more likely the west will be to take action against kim and his regime. WHich i feel would ultimately help the people of that nation more so then leaving him in power.

Well the level of poverty and desperation of the regime certainly are higher than was in Cuba. Im kinda tired to see that the only approach offered here is short term confrontation. I think we could give negociation and engagement at least 10 years.

To accomplish what? To allow him even more time to exploit his populace? How would 10 year negociations work with a man such as this? Clearly such negociations have had little affect on tyrants in the past. We're seeing an example of this in iraq now.

Kim is definately not thinking clearly. I would say it is time for the west to take action against him.

As much as I hate to say it we need another Nixon. Im not so sure they wouldnt make some major hit on a US base in the region if the US struck first

Well democoder and i are sure they haven't the capacity to do this. Who's missle technology, guidance technology, etc would they be using to propell these rockets to their destinantion? Their own :LOL: ?

Nixon was definately an affective leader when it came to foreign pollicy. This is why i am so glad we don't have Bill Clinton or Gore as president at this time. They were both hidiously inept when it came to foriegn policy.
 
Kim is definately not thinking clearly. I would say it is time for the west to take action against him.

And run the risk of genocide?

I believe it would be out of the question any time soon.

In future, who knows?

(I mean any action other than diplomacy)
 
I just don't like the idea of propping us such a distasteful regime for ten years and dealing with their nonsense everytime they need money.

On the scale of evil dictatorships, NK ranks high above China, Cuba, even the East Germans. People in NK have far less freedom than even in Mao's darkest days. It's a Stalinist nightmare.

Imagine if a religious cult manufactured WMDs and sat next to Wall Street demanding payment every week for not setting them off. That's what we're facing, a nutty religious cult that just happens to be a nation state.

The fact that we allowed them to arm themselves this far is regrettable and we are now in a situation where we have to consider paying blackmail.

The problem is, the US has offered to pay blackmail, but only if the nuke programs are VERIFIABLY shutdown, something NK refuses to do because they know verfication requires allowing international inspectors to roam their country at suspected secret program sites, and they do not want the world to see what they have been up to.


I would only be in favor of paying them off, IF, they allow continuous, decade long, unincumbered international inspections, something I doubt they will allow.
 
K.I.L.E.R said:
Kim is definately not thinking clearly. I would say it is time for the west to take action against him.

And run the risk of genocide?

I believe it would be out of the question any time soon.

In future, who knows?

(I mean any action other than diplomacy)

What do you think he is going to nuke the white world? :LOL: :rolleyes:
 
Did I say he was going to nuke the "white world"? :rolleyes:

Legion said:
K.I.L.E.R said:
Kim is definately not thinking clearly. I would say it is time for the west to take action against him.

And run the risk of genocide?

I believe it would be out of the question any time soon.

In future, who knows?

(I mean any action other than diplomacy)

What do you think he is going to nuke the white world? :LOL: :rolleyes:
 
DemoCoder said:
I just don't like the idea of propping us such a distasteful regime for ten years and dealing with their nonsense everytime they need money.

Another great example of the bankruptcy of communism.
 
K.I.L.E.R said:
Did I say he was going to nuke the "white world"? :rolleyes:

Legion said:
K.I.L.E.R said:
Kim is definately not thinking clearly. I would say it is time for the west to take action against him.

And run the risk of genocide?

I believe it would be out of the question any time soon.

In future, who knows?

(I mean any action other than diplomacy)

What do you think he is going to nuke the white world? :LOL: :rolleyes:

you said genocide

gen·o·cide ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jn-sd)
n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
 
Yes I did, but did I say anyone was going to use nukes?

The people in Nth Korea as you know are hidden away from the world, they listen to the 1 person everyday in their lives. That person is Kim Jong Il, he fills everyones head with so much hatefull propoganda and the vast majority of people in Nth Korea buy it.

If Coalition troops were to enter the country they might as well systematically kill off all the resistance (brainwashed people and whatnot).

It's like what the Nazis had done. Normal people becoming brainwashed and joining in for the kill.

I hope no one believes that the people of North Korea would open their arms to any troops invading their country?

An invasion would certainly end up in a genocide for the Nth Koreans.
 
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