Nintendo know something MS and Sony do not know?

[pc999]

maybe we should assume the fact we are grown-ups who like to play with toys.

That is big truth, console=playing, some consoles does more than just playing but they are made to be console and sold as that, if they only wanted the rest they would probably be able to da a much better job for that than a PS3/360 so they do sell a console and we buy a console.

 

[TheChefO]

That is big truth, console=playing, some consoles does more than just playing but they are made to be console and sold as that, if they only wanted the rest they would probably be able to da a much better job for that than a PS3/360 so they do sell a console and we buy a console.

Interesting thought based on the "cool" factor that Sony brought to the market from the begining...

What if that is part of the growing of the market that Sony is attempting with ps3? Example:
Joe 6pak is intrigued with games in commercials etc but doesn't want to be rediculed for having a "games" system. with ps3 being marketed as a computer the price is justifiable and it doubles as a bluray player. The machine "just so happens to play games" ... Joe6pak says to his buddy/wife/family "I thought I might as well see what all the fuss was about with these games so I picked up Killzone".

Basicly Sony selling the concept of masking your gaming desires with other devices which are typicaly expensive and the machine is therefore a great value anyone outside of the games abilities which help to sell the device to your peers.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Come on, we're WAY past the stage where you have to hide the fact you play video games, the biggest "joe 6packs" i know almost all play games.

Associating it with a PC makes it far more 'geeky' in the eyes of these people, so if the goal is to raise the cool factor of the machine, making it perform PC-like functions is NOT going to serve that purpose.

I really have no idea who the target market is for this PC-console, honestly I don't think it will be much of a PC-console at all, it's just KK dreaming again, it will just be a console with some digital media distribution built in. It will be cool cause it's PS3, that's all it needs, and they'll have to drop the price quickly to hit the target audience.

 

[TheChefO]

Come on, we're WAY past the stage where you have to hide the fact you play video games, the biggest "joe 6packs" i know almost all play games.

Associating it with a PC makes it far more 'geeky' in the eyes of these people, so if the goal is to raise the cool factor of the machine, making it perform PC-like functions is NOT going to serve that purpose.

I really have no idea who the target market is for this PC-console, honestly I don't think it will be much of a PC-console at all, it's just KK dreaming again, it will just be a console with some digital media distribution built in. It will be cool cause it's PS3, that's all it needs, and they'll have to drop the price quickly to hit the target audience.

Not necessarily - I know of many 30-40 somethings who would consider a game console a kids toy. To be able to reach out to these people and give them a way to buy-in without buying-in would be beneficial. In their eyes even if they never used the gaming functions, the box would still have a use.

Basicly by reversing the value proposition and including the game system for free they might encourage those who may be curious about gaming to actually try it. (in the comfort and privacy of their own homes of course)

 

[_xxx_]

Knowing a lot of people that the prymary reason why they dont play much is because it is to hard

If by "too hard" you mean "the game requires to to do really many useless unoriginal things in order to achieve some goal which is just as unoriginal and annoying, since you saw/did it all in 10000 better games already and it adds nothing to the experience", then yes, count me in

 

[blakjedi]

If either console were designed like a professional rackmount black-lacquered, AV component, no one would consider it a toy... Its more about design than function.

 

[_xxx_]

are xbox360, PSP and PS3 toys that are ashamed of being toy ?.

They're not. They're just selling you a transformer car/animal/humanoid robot running on fusion energy which allows you to play games, surf the net and enjoy all kinds of media content on- or offline, all that while cooking dinner and giving you a back massage

Now seriously, the PS3 is meant to be the mother of all the wet dreams of set-top box designers. Assuming: great gaming, great media capabilities with great connectivity and possibilites for easy online distribution of content and probably a web browser of some kind (Opera in disguise maybe?).

Even stuff for the geeks - it might be capable of some kind of distributed computing as well.

An easy to use, instant-on device which will do all the entertainment related stuff possible (and get you online as easy nd good as a PC too), what's wrong with that?

Of course, all this assuming they pull it off properly

 

[Magnum PI]

By "toy" you reference "play" - so if you are "playing" then it must be a "toy".

it's not just me, it's the primary definition of toy:

"something meant to be played with, especially by children"

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861721193

What about simlators? Where is the line drawn?

arcade-oriented simulators = definitively toy

if you use a reality-oriented simulator, are you doing something serious ? couldn't it be like a grown-up variation of play role games of our childhood ? hey look ! i'm a pilot !

the same simulator can be a toy or a professional training tool, it depends of the intent.

 

[TheChefO]

it's not just me, it's the primary definition of toy:

"something meant to be played with, especially by children"

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861721193

arcade-oriented simulators = definitively toy

if you use a reality-oriented simulator, are you doing something serious ? couldn't it be like a grown-up variation of play role games of our childhood ? hey look ! i'm a pilot !

the same simulator can be a toy or a professional training tool, it depends of the intent.

Yes that's the definition of "toy", but play!=toy.
"go play with your brother" - does that mean your brother is a toy?

 

[Magnum PI]

Now seriously, the PS3 is meant to be the mother of all the wet dreams of set-top box designers.

the set-top box from my adsl provider brings HD, hdmi connection, TV, VoD, Internet, multimedia extender (MIMO), VoIP and i think we'll soon have videogames (!) and PVR (integrated HDD) within the same box.

console-makers won't be able to compete service-wise with the access provider, as they are not at the same level network-wise.

 

[Magnum PI]

Yes that's the definition of "toy", but play!=toy.
"go play with your brother" - does that mean your brother is a toy?

a toy is *something* to be played with, which implies that a toy is an object.

a so-said intelligent carbon entity can't qualify as a toy.

i think i just have guessed you next question:

"i'm playing with a part of me" does that mean par of me is a toy ?

 

[TheChefO]

a toy is *something* to be played with, which implies that a toy is an object.

a so-said intelligent carbon entity can't qualify as a toy.

i think i just have guessed you next question:

lol - so is the internet a toy?

 

[pc999]

If by "too hard" you mean "the game requires to to do really many useless unoriginal things in order to achieve some goal which is just as unoriginal and annoying, since you saw/did it all in 10000 better games already and it adds nothing to the experience", then yes, count me in

That too but even on original games (eg FSW) that is way to hard, even I find hard.

But if you think in those how only play games from times to times (or never played) I know a lot of people that like to play but they do find hard to play even somewhat symple games like Halo (actually some of them did better in the GoldenEye/PD) those can be easly be atracted by Wii (what is easier than point?).

 

[Magnum PI]

think about us ageing gamers, we don't have the same reflex as before and not as much time to play..


in metroid prime i didn't beat the last boss, in MP2 i stopped with the boss where you morph into the ball .. and worse the last savepoint is far from these bosses.

PoP there is there is the elevator stage where we are attacked.. i finished stopped playing this game too.

when its too difficult it ends in frustration, I won't replay a level dozens of times, I want to relax from my work when I play, not stress myself too much..

i have to be able to play for short sessions, and these can be interrupted, this mean i don't want 30 minutes b/w two savepoints

gamers are ageing, when doing so they are becoming a different audience with differents needs, please don't forget us.

 

[scooby_dooby]

think about us ageing gamers, we don't have the same reflex as before and not as much time to play..


in metroid prime i didn't beat the last boss, in MP2 i stopped with the boss where you morph into the ball .. and worse the last savepoint is far from these bosses.

PoP there is there is the elevator stage where we are attacked.. i finished stopped playing this game too.

when its too difficult it ends in frustration, I won't replay a level dozens of times, I want to relax from my work when I play, not stress myself too much..

i have to be able to play for short sessions, and these can be interrupted, this mean i don't want 30 minutes b/w two savepoints

gamers are ageing, when doing so they are becoming a different audience with differents needs, please don't forget us.

Difficulty creates a feeling of accomplishment, satisfaction, this is key to the gaming experience for many peope. If something is easy, there's no sense of achievement when you pass it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it though, for example Halo never puts you further than 5minutes back, which alleviates much of the frustration you speak of.

Why don't you just play your games on easy?

 

[Magnum PI]

there isn't always the option to choose the difficulty level. and even in easy sometimes there is something too hard.

I should be able to change the difficulty level during a game, to skip a boss, or go into god mode when i want, à la quake

the thing we know as a cheat mode, it should openly and systematically be present in each game and should be documented.

someone who sucks at gaming should be able to enjoy it anyway.

 

[StefanS]

Difficulty creates a feeling of accomplishment, satisfaction, this is key to the gaming experience for many peope. If something is easy, there's no sense of achievement when you pass it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it though, for example Halo never puts you further than 5minutes back, which alleviates much of the frustration you speak of.

See there's the problem, in Metroid Prime the last save point is about 10 min away from the last boss, and there's annoying platform jumping before. Now, the last boss isn't that hard, but still it requires probably 5 tries. So instead of replaying the boss battle, you spend most of your time hopping around just because the designers were too stupid to put a freaking savepoint right before the final boss. Boy, that was really annoying.

 

[_xxx_]

the set-top box from my adsl provider brings HD, hdmi connection, TV, VoD, Internet, multimedia extender (MIMO), VoIP and i think we'll soon have videogames (!) and PVR (integrated HDD) within the same box.

console-makers won't be able to compete service-wise with the access provider, as they are not at the same level network-wise.

Well, your set-top box still won't give you Heavenly Sword etc, right? Add to that the "cool" factor for the PS3 too. And if there's enough demand for the better service, it'll eventually improve.

I'm not saying it'll work out that way, I just think that's what Sony targeted.

 

[_xxx_]

That too but even on original games (eg FSW) that is way to hard, even I find hard.

But if you think in those how only play games from times to times (or never played) I know a lot of people that like to play but they do find hard to play even somewhat symple games like Halo (actually some of them did better in the GoldenEye/PD) those can be easly be atracted by Wii (what is easier than point?).

Let me put it this way, if the game requires you to do so much hard stuff that it feels like work, the fun's over.

 

[_xxx_]

Difficulty creates a feeling of accomplishment, satisfaction, this is key to the gaming experience for many peope. If something is easy, there's no sense of achievement when you pass it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it though, for example Halo never puts you further than 5minutes back, which alleviates much of the frustration you speak of.

Why don't you just play your games on easy?

It's not really about difficulty as such, it's that it's difficult in wrong places. Say, an fps full of jump&run crap like JediKnight2 for example. I really liked the game, but I really hated the fact that you have these jump&run sections in there just as oftenas you have to fight/shoot. That spoils the fun completely because it's a misplaced gimmick just to prolong the game artificially instead of with more content.