Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [pre E3 2019]
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XB1X was a $500 machine. Lockhart is supposed to be the cheaper machine. So yeah, consumers should be very comfortable knowing that cheaper devices don't perform as quickly as more expensive ones, at least until technology has caught up. It's the difference between buying a flagship phone or a mid-range phone three years afterwards. The $1000 flagship phone can still outperform the $400 midrange phone due to sheer price of components, though the newer phone will have technological advantages for beign more recent.
Let's say Sony implement this for the PS5, can you guys possibly tell whether this means it'll a hybrid 128GB+HDD or a 1TB SSD? Is there anything there in the technology that suggest a tiny SSD cache system, or a regular storage with limited writes.
I didn't say I think it's going to be Cell. I said that was an option, perhaps not a plausible one, which would facilitate easier PS3 BC. The reason to make PS5 BC with PS3 is the same reasons consoles have always had to maintain BC - to encourage previous generation owners to stay in the ecosystem. Sony have confirmed PS4 BC in PS5 for exactly that reason.
BC also doesn't stop remasters. You could play FFX as the PS2 version on PS3 (with BC), or the PS3 remaster. The latter is a much better experience. You can choose to play GOW3 in BC mode at 30 fps and blurry, or choose to play the remaster at signficantly better quality. You can choose to play the original TLOU, or the updated version with HDR.
Edit: Also, BC opens up the opportunity of selling the original games, for no more outlay at all versus remasters. There are going to be millions of new PS owners who never played the likes of KZ2 or R:FOM or Motorstorm who might buy those games, espiecally as cheaper download titles. And you can fill out subscription service libraries with some BC titles too to add value to them.
BC also doesn't stop remasters. You could play FFX as the PS2 version on PS3 (with BC), or the PS3 remaster. The latter is a much better experience. You can choose to play GOW3 in BC mode at 30 fps and blurry, or choose to play the remaster at signficantly better quality. You can choose to play the original TLOU, or the updated version with HDR.
Edit: Also, BC opens up the opportunity of selling the original games, for no more outlay at all versus remasters. There are going to be millions of new PS owners who never played the likes of KZ2 or R:FOM or Motorstorm who might buy those games, espiecally as cheaper download titles. And you can fill out subscription service libraries with some BC titles too to add value to them.
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It will be a 1TB SSD not a cache solution. External HDD or SSD will only be for storage.
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There is an embedded ARM core in PS4's southbridge but it's not capable of running Android. The higher level Android builds support a limited number of ARM SoCs which are too costly to include in PS5. If you want to just include an ARM core then Sony would need to do a lot of work on a bespoke Android build - on top of their ongoing work on the main PS5 OS.
This seems like quite a lot of effort for something Sony can't directly benefit from.
Not sure how I interpret you answer here. I think they'll have custom SSD + (upgradable) HDD. The SSD could be easily combined with standard HDD. They'll have their own file system so they could use the SSD to store like the last 5 or 10 played games depending of their sizes (and that number could be improved later with PS5 Pro when they'll most probably increase custom SSD size).
Hypothetically, when you start a new game from HDD storage, the first time the game will be copied to the SSD by erasing the less played game if the SSD is already full. Also this could be combined with their play go system to copy just what is needed to start playing, the small needed part is copied to the SSD -> you start playing while the rest of the game is being copied to the SSD.
When you install from blu-ray or Internet it could automatically be installed on both HDD and SSD, and if Play go is combined, then likewise you could start playing in less then a minute.
But I think they could add options in the settings for that: "do you want every installed game to be also installed on the SSD ?" "When the SSD is full, do you want the less played game(s) to be erased or do you want to select which game(s) to be erased ?" etc.
Of course ARM makes sense, and that's more likely the type of processor given the job. Letting people use it to play Android games doesn't. That doesn't net Sony any money. It doesn't perpetuate the PlayStation ecosystem. Time spent playing Android games takes away from time spent playing PS games for which Sony gets paid.
borntosoul
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Why cell? I don’t get it, why would Sony be interested in supporting BC for the ps3 ?
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Cell's architecture hasn't been work on for a long time and it would need a complete redesign for modern processes. I reckon the chances of an actual Cell architecture chip being included in PS5 is about zero but something modern customized to emulate Cell? Maybe. But why? To target what must be an infinitesimally small number of people who will only buy a PS5 if it plays PS3 games?
Dude, I've literally just spent the last few posts outlining the reasons - what BC brings, how Cell would fit in with PS5, the marketing and monetisation benefits, and the cloud hosting of PS3 titles benefits.
The reasons not to use Cell are cost to implement and dubious value of PS3 BC.
BC is never about selling a console to people wanting explicitly to play an old game. It's about adding value and permanence to a platform. A PS5 that can play every PS game ever made, and has them all online ready to buy, is significant in its presence even if users rarely use that BC. As discussed in the 'importance of BC' thread, buy and large people don't play old games, but new and better games. So why ever bother adding BC at all? If it can be done cost effectively, it's a good value-add. The focus being 'cost effectively'. PS1 BC was added cost effectively to PS2 by repurposing the hardware for the next-gen experience. XB360 BC was added cost effectively to XB1 through emulation. PS2 wasn't added cost effectively to PS3 as it needed the whole chipset, so it was dropped.Cell's architecture hasn't been work on for a long time and it would need a complete redesign for modern processes. I reckon the chances of an actual Cell architecture chip being included in PS5 is about zero but something modern customized to emulate Cell? Maybe. But why? To target what must be an infinitesimally small number of people who will only buy a PS5 if it plays PS3 games?
Not having BC won't particularly impact sales. Neither would having a storage solution that loads in 4 seconds instead of 1. Neither would having a 1.8 GHz processor instead of a 2 GHz processor. But you don't design a system by focussing on what you can leave out, but by seeing what you can include to make the strongest, most compelling offering. Every feature, even if never used, is a plus that helps move systems.
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borntosoul
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Are we missing something? coz logic would say no.Cell's architecture hasn't been work on for a long time and it would need a complete redesign for modern processes. I reckon the chances of an actual Cell architecture chip being included in PS5 is about zero but something modern customized to emulate Cell? Maybe. But why? To target what must be an infinitesimally small number of people who will only buy a PS5 if it plays PS3 games?
I think the ps4 BC is brilliant as in it allows them some breathing space for the ps5 intro. Meaning they could really go to town on the ps5 and people who want the grunt will still pay the premium for it and everyone’s happy.
borntosoul
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Shifty no offence but l don’t see the logic, the cost involved in hardware ,software etc......also they would’ve said something by now like they did with ps4 bc. I think it’s very unlikely but we will find out soon enough.
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When you can provide that for little cost, such a one time cost sink for development of a software emulator then that is an easier write off compared to a ongoing per-unit cost of including hardware to play old games games even current PlayStations can't play - especially for questionable customer value.
Including non-essential hardware like this can backfire, much like many people who were unhappy about having to buy Kinect to get an Xbox One. Even if they can put in a chip for $10, you know they will be be PS5 owners bemoaning that should have been spent putting another 2-4Gb RAM in PS5. Sony learned this lesson with PS3 with all the media card slots that were engineered out over time.
At this point, backwards compatibility with the current generation is about keeping existing PlayStation 4 owners in the PlayStation ecosystem. If PS5 didn't play PS4 games then PS4 owners are no worse off jumping to the next Xbox than PS5 as you'll be starting your game library afresh - unless you had a 360 in which case picking the next Xbox may give you access to a bunch of games you already own.
Supporting legacy software is all about ecosystem retention, the more customer's invest in an ecosystem, the less likely they are to leave it.
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I have not at any point argued that this is the likely situation. I have not claimed PS5 will have PS3 BC, or any other BC. I've only presented the case as to why and how Cell and PS3 BC could be incorporated into PS5 in light of the patent mentioning a discrete IO processor.
That's why I raised it, as it's not non-essential. The fast IO needs a processor. Ergo, if Sony are putting a CPU in there anyway, could they use Cell for that and add PS3 BC into the mix?
borntosoul
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Judging by you last few posts l beg to differ, Sony are not even supporting ps3 on PS now.
cell is a redundant arch anyway.
What?
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/playstation-now/games/
2014 - Sony’s PlayStation Now uses custom-designed hardware with eight PS3s on a single motherboard.
So as already mentioned as one of the arguments in favour of including Cell, if Sony are going to want PS3 emulation in the cloud, and want that to be as cool and efficient as possible so not using powerful hardware emulating PS3, it'd behove them to make an updated tiny, cool Cell. And/or integrate Cell into PS5, have PS5 able to play all BC games, and use PS5's in their cloud service.
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