Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

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My point was to consider something with the power of a base PS4 being used as a controller for the PS5, and in which ways such a powerful client+controller could be used for games.
Say, rear-view for racing games, super-detailed 3D zoomable maps in adventure/FPS games, an inventory with detailed 3D models, etc.

The PS5 gamepad is rumored to have an LCD, so developing for a second screen would be standard for all games. Sony already tested the waters for this with the PS4 (second screen through the android/iOS app already exists in a bunch of games) so it actually makes sense for them to pursue the idea.

But with the PS4 Go being used as "super controller", developers could go even further with local 3D rendering taking place. Or even if they didn't want to put a lot of effort into the "premium 2nd screen" functionality they could just scale up the UI and people would get a gamepad with a 10" screen.

As cool as that would be, I think we're way more likely to see a simple, relatively cheap 7" tablet for those purposes, at least until a few years have passed, when we'll then be looking at something like 3nm.

Something like a beefed up Kindle Fire tablet, with a greater emphasis on the screen would be the perfect way of getting a PlayStation Now compatible device into the hands of millions. If they could acquire high enough quality screens at low enough prices, they could make VR even more accessible by making a cheap, Google Daydream style headset the only barrier to entry for owners of the tablet.

Ideal PS Tablet
- A 7" screen with a 1440p resolution, capable of native 120Hz.
- Decent enough hardware to bear up under comparisons to the Switch - something like a Snapdragon 845 with 4GB of memory.
- Single USB C port, can charge and output HDMI 2.1 with a dock.
- Screen isn't covered when docked, and can function as a second screen.
- Able to be emulated by the PS4/Pro/5.
- DualShock 5 should be a cross between the Joy Cons and a split DualShock 4 and come with each tablet.
- $150-$200, knowing that it will drive constant engagement with the PlayStation ecosystem.


In the meantime, I think a Micro PS4 or PS5 would be a great solution for many. Make it a tiny box, with no power supply, no ODD, and no internal storage, and use a variety of docks to transform its form factor to whatever best suits each user. I initially though a base PS4 would be the best target performance for such a device, but considering the size of the XBoxOneX with its ODD, HDD, and power supply, I think it's feasible to shoot higher.

I think, rather than spending money on shrinking down the PS4/Pro SoC's, Sony could release a miniscule PS5, focused on 1440p and greater, to complement their streaming tablet. Something that will quickly become cheap to manufacture. Something like:

- Zen2 or 3 chiplet clocked at 2.8GHz - all 8 cores active, with SMT.
- 40CU Navi GPU with a couple of CU's disabled, and clocked for ~8TF.
- 16GB GDDR6 with 14GB available to games.
- 4GB DDR4 and dedicated GPU+CPU for UI and apps. Maybe the same as that found in the portable - engineer a cooling solution to allow for use in the home console, the portable silicone with the worse thermal profile.

Enough to run any patched PS4 game to run at 4K60, but nothing that'll set the world on fire. Handily able to render VR content. Able to hold its own in the next generation, and render at a minimum of 1440p, kind of like the Pro having a stipulation that it can only dip as low as 1080p.

Sony then have the flexibility to ship it as a normal home console, with an ODD and HDD, but users have the flexibility to pop out the "brain" and plug it into a laptop shell if they want to play on said laptop; or they could comfortably take it around with them, in that laptop shell, and use Remote Play to stream to their tablet.

And then, they can go fucking mental with the PS5 proper! :D
 
How much would such a super controller cost? How receptive would the base be with paying $X for said super controller? Or is this super controller entirely optional for the PS5? Does it only function with PS5?

PS4 Go doubles as super controller.
How much does Sony charge for a PS4 Go? Well I'd gladly pay north of $500 for it. We're talking a handheld that plays a huge library of great games on its own and doubles as super controller for the PS5.

An optional super controller device with detachable sides would be a mobile PlayStation. Still not relevant for this thread. ;)
Aww.. Okay.
:(
 
Contract Prices of NAND Flash Products to Drop Further in 1H19; Price Decline Would Reach 10% in 1Q19


Yeah baby strip down those NAND prices! We want those next-gen consoles to rock SSDs.
At this point I will be shocked if we don’t get SSDs. QLC is gaining steam and 128-layer is coming. Even 1TB SSD may not be ludicrous.

I just hope they’re user-replicable, especially if we’re given a poor endurance drive. I also wonder if they’ll go board mount (M2 or similar) if they do SSD only. Should keep overall console size down.


Edit: another idea I’ve been thinking about is developer enabled per-core turbo modes. Given some games still don’t use all 6/7 cores available to them all the time, and simple frequency boosts are hard to beat, would it make sense to have a few developer-toggled turbo modes for reduced core counts? This would give the predictability console games are presumed to need but also gives developers flexibility in how they hit their performance targets.

Presumably the other cores would hum along in the background doing OS stuff. Maybe they could even downclock?
 
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I also wonder if they’ll go board mount (M2 or similar) if they do SSD only. Should keep overall console size down.
Even if they go with the largest 2280 M2 size it should still be a tiny fraction of the volume occupied by 2.5" SATA drive.

However M2 drives would also be a lot more fragile than the normal SATA enclosures. If they allow user replaceability, the amount of returns due to broken PCBs, clawed-off capacitors etc. is bound to increase..
 
Even if they go with the largest 2280 M2 size it should still be a tiny fraction of the volume occupied by 2.5" SATA drive.

However M2 drives would also be a lot more fragile than the normal SATA enclosures. If they allow user replaceability, the amount of returns due to broken PCBs, clawed-off capacitors etc. is bound to increase..

People replace their HDDs current at their own risk, so no big deal if people want to pay for warranty service. Plus, with a custom PCB, it shouldn’t be hard to put the M2 slot in a secluded and protected section at the periphery of the PCB.
 
I am woried about user replaceable SSD for the devs needing reliable asset streaming. User supplied storage cannot have guaranteed performance metrics. This wasn't the case with HDD where any mass produced 2.5 drive was at least as good as the stock 5200.
 
Another stupid question (It's been awhile!) Nvme SSD vs SATA SSD. Currently the speed difference is irrelevant for gaming purposes (To the best of my knowledge.) Supposedly the CPU is the bottleneck - comp/decomp. Would it be feasible/ worth it to build in a small amount of dedicated hardware to take that load off/ assist the CPU and go with an Nvme or would you just stick with the SATA?
 
I am woried about user replaceable SSD for the devs needing reliable asset streaming. User supplied storage cannot have guaranteed performance metrics. This wasn't the case with HDD where any mass produced 2.5 drive was at least as good as the stock 5200.
A small fraction of the user base will open their console to replace an internal storage drive. Of that small fraction, the vast majority are probably replacing it with something they know to be better performing (especially if the connector type precludes attaching HDDs or simply doesn’t have space for one). The rest of the people are severely uninformed or foolish, and the developers shouldn’t accommodate them.
 
What if we can stream textures from such an nvme drive? Like the OG xbox did with rally sport challange 2. Non removeble at perhaps 64gb, and 1tb+ hybrid hdd/ssd removeble for storage.
 
Is there any reason why they wouldn't use NVME? It seems like the ideal solution to the memory problem, and grants them flexibility for the rest of the generation to pursue any kind of storage and form factor.
 
Is there any reason why they wouldn't use NVME? It seems like the ideal solution to the memory problem, and grants them flexibility for the rest of the generation to pursue any kind of storage and form factor.
I think nvme needs a more expensive nand controller. Not sure if it shows in retail prices?
 
I think devs will be happy with just SSD if/when they get it. ;)

I could see NVME being an elite type of feature for future consideration, but maybe it would be of more use for the instant-on experience and reloading the previous state back into memory.
 
They didn't do NVMe on One S and One X because of the changes it would have required to the existing IO portions of the chip and the PCB layout and routing.
 
They didn't do NVMe on One S and One X because of the changes it would have required to the existing IO portions of the chip and the PCB layout and routing.
Do you have the source for this? I would be curious to read it. They were similarly forthcoming about why they rejected HBM for Xbox One X.
 
Do you have the source for this? I would be curious to read it. They were similarly forthcoming about why they rejected HBM for Xbox One X.

I think I initially found it from a Reddit or Twitter discussion with someone from Xbox on the software side, but let me try to dig it up on these forums.

Found It, about 46 pages back: https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2036430/
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Thought it might be useful to the discussion on why MS did not include an SSD on the One X and instead stayed with the eMMC setup, posted on Reddit from a member of the "XboxOne Dev Team" (software side).

Namely pointing out that additional PCIe lanes would be needed for NVMe support which would require additional architecture rework, additional costs for SSD, and the lack of genuine benefit when internal connections limit it already to 3GBps.

Now perhaps the next-gen architecture can be designed fresh to have dedicated NVMe support or Sata III.

 
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