They are early adopters - once these obvious inefficiencies are eliminated, peformance will still be limited by hardware BVH search.there is room to optimize many other things which will further increase performance
Volta exposes DirectX Raytracing tier 1 - could they be using compute units to emulate BVH acceleration? AFAIK any denoising is left for the developer to implement, it's not a part of the DXR API.Volta doesn't have any RT acceleration, it just accelerates denoising, maybe it emulates RT on the software level.
Epic StarWars: Runs great on 4 TitanVs which are 3k a piece.
SEED: Running on one or more TitanVs
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/directx-ray-tracing.60670/#post-2024400
You realize I'm not advocating for the removal of compute units from the hardware, right? And really, how would the addition of RT hardware prevent any of the developments you mention? It wouldn't. It actually increases the range of possibilities because it allows for things that would be too slow to do otherwise. I also find the term fixed-function when referring to RTX very misleading because it's not at all like T&L that can do the one algorithm that makes every single game look the same. Anti-aliasing, lighting simulation, collision detection, audio simulation and who knows what other uses it could have. And that's just RTX, we don't know the features/limitations of future/competing RT acceleration architectures.Nonsense. Most "standard" features today were anything but standard when the hardware of PS4/ONE were designed. Modern engines do use a lot of novel techniques that are only possible today thanks to the flexibility provided by these machines.
Dreams is just the most extreme example, where the whole rendering pipeline is compute based and foregoes even the most basic primitives typically used.
But there are other commercial games TODAY using SDF ray-tracing for parts of their rendering, like for example: Fortnite. Their large scale AO raytraces against an SDF representation of the scene constructed out of smaller SDF volumes. It is in fact a standard feature of UE4, and can be used for variable penumbra shadows too.
Similarly, all modern engines today are moving towards variable resolution deferred renders with temporal injection and reconstruction for upscaling and AA. None of that is a standard feature of GPUs, nor were they envisioned by GPU designers, they were clever software tricks developers were able to pull off within the constraints of DX9 level hardware initially, and really started flourishing now on the DX11/12 level machines of today.
For geometry processing, most big AAA engines are already doing things similar to mesh-shaders and NGG on consoles using compute because the API is less restrictive there (our own sebbbi was a pioneer in that front together with the devs of AC Unity). GPUs are actually catching up to an idea they probably wouldn't have had themselves were it not for devs experimentation.
Texture Space shading, and before that, Tiled Resources are the same thing. GPU designers took a look at what carmak (and our sebbbi again) had done with virtual texturing by software, and adapted their hardware design to empower such tech and make more viable and efficient.
Man, I could go on and on about software solutions no gpu engineer would have ever thought of if it were not for their designs having become flexible enough to make those ideas possible. Deferred rendering itself is one. POM. Virtually all Screen Space effects such as AO, SSS, Reflections, Specula Occlusion (very important component of RDR2's look), soft z-rested particles, gpu particles...
It's also limited to non-deformable meshes and procedural geometry.I like the way you're pro-RT stance highlights the negatives. To me, the results look great and the performance runs fine on existing GPUs. That's a significant win, a great piece of tech, and a great early adoption of SDF which is far newer tech than raytracing (only 20 years old?).
It'll be sad seeing games devoting resources to native 4K renderingThey are early adopters - once these obvious inefficiencies are eliminated, peformance will still be limited by hardware BVH search.
Sure a 25-30% improvement is nice, but even with these limited applications of realtime raytracing, we probably need like 5x (500%) performance improvement to scale flawlessly with complex geometry and 4K resolution.
For the moment.It's also limited to non-deformable meshes and procedural geometry.
isn't dlss nvidia though?
3640 shader cores, can't divide this with 64 to get an CU number. Someone put so much effort in this fake, but doesn't have basic architectural knowledge making such a fault.
It looks as though it's supposed to be a draft press release but it's obviously fake. Firstly, it looks nothing like any of Sony's PlayStation press releases and secondly, rookie mistake is the use of PlayStation tm (trademark) instead of PlayStation(R) (registered trademark).
they've even mocked up a pig-ugly box the you could imagine Sony selling!
The mentioning of custom raytracing extensions (Radeon Rays) might imply that Navi has no hardware-accelerated raytracing...I hope no console's GPU hardware design has any silicon wasted on functionality created for that specific paradigm.
Emulation is 32-bit only and its performance is lagging behind x86 APUs. x64 applications are not supported and need to be recompiled to ARM64.MS already has win10 running native on ARM, including X86 emulation
They're not that hard to do for someone with experience. And people go to great lengths for fakes. We've even seen fake hardware mockups before.Looks legit to me. The design and the renders are professional quality, I can't see someone spending so much effort on a fake.
I don't see that limitation changing soon. Maybe for next gen, if conservative rasterisation and maybe other modern architectural changes can make real time voxelization faster, then we may be able to generate SDF's in real time for arbitrary meshes. Using SDF for occlusion instead of naive binary occlusion models might be the missing link to make voxel based GI less leaky.For the moment.
We've no idea. The point is, anyone who's willing to believe raytracing will improve over time with better algorithms should acknowledge the same can happen with other algorithms and techniques, rather than looking at the current limitations and expecting them to always be there. To afford RT the benefit of the doubt but not other techniques is simply discirimination.I don't see that limitation changing soon. Maybe for next gen, if conservative rasterisation and maybe other modern architectural changes can make real time voxelization faster, then we may be able to generate SDF's in real time for arbitrary meshes.
The video looks fine on 30" QHD / 32" 4K monitors, where it is probably supposed to be viewed.as a presentation the text is too small and verbose
There is also a detailed product lineup complete with peripherals and hardware/software specs. If it's fake, it's a very elaborate one, created by professionals.people go to great lengths for fakes. We've even seen fake hardware mockups before.
Just use compute for special cases. Like I said, it's not one or the other.There are thousands of ways to create a Bounding Volume Hierarchy, and for each another thousands of ways to optimise it's traversal. Even more so, when you can custom-make it for the specific scope and characteristics of your game, instead of trying to create a silver bullet.
But the way DXR was envisioned, the BVH is created by the GPU's drivers and the dev knows nothing of it. This limits the people experimenting with that field to GPU engineers, when it could be an active field of research among the entire game development community.
A good BVH can also be used for a myriad of other things beside casting rays. From what I understand, the way DXR does it, also keeps the BVH in it's own little private space, and can't be queried or interacted with for other stuff other than by casting rays into it. In that case a game night have 2 simultaneous BVH's operating, one created by the dev for his own purposes, the other created by the GPU driver.
I hope no console's GPU hardware design has any silicon wasted on functionality created for that specific paradigm.
If AMD could have pulled some architecture out of their hat that can rival Nvidia's a couple years ago (which is when PS5/Scarlet initiated more solid designing) that is also much more open and flexible, then that's great. I'm not holding my breath though.
I'll believe it when I see it, even in scene demos or research papers.For the moment.
Beliefs based on current research trends VS beliefs based on wishful thinking.We've no idea. The point is, anyone who's willing to believe raytracing will improve over time with better algorithms should acknowledge the same can happen with other algorithms and techniques, rather than looking at the current limitations and expecting them to always be there. To afford RT the benefit of the doubt but not other techniques is simply discirimination.
Hogswash. It's based on the past 20 years precedent in how graphics tech has advanced. Do you genuinely believe that going forwards, all rendering technology is going to stagnate on what we have now? That if RT wasn't introduced, we'd be looking at no algorithmic advances at all??Beliefs based on current research trends VS beliefs based on wishful thinking.
Just use compute for special cases. Like I said, it's not one or the other.
What are you quoting?Actually the 3640 shader cores number may be correct. Let me quote:
Yep, that's why I said it would need to be recompiled. And I don't see that happening. Was just highlighting that they already have a native windows 10 arm version.Emulation is 32-bit only and its performance is lagging behind x86 APUs. x64 applications are not supported and need to be recompiled to ARM64.
It’s from the YouTube video.What are you quoting?
It's crazy what people will spend their time doing. To fool the net?They're not that hard to do for someone with experience. And people go to great lengths for fakes. We've even seen fake hardware mockups before.
Sony uses PlayStation® as a general reference to the family, but they also use ™ for specific models and logos, such as PS4™, PS4™ Pro, PlayStation™Vue etc. Probably too much hassle to register on multiple markets.