Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

[Jay]

How does everyone feel about the "AdoredTV" youtube channel as a source? I ask because a bit back when watching one of his videos, something of possible relevance stuck in my mind. I am unsure which video it was, but basically it stated that Nvidia had to "jump the gun" so to speak when it came to the RTX (ray tracing) series. Why? Because AMD was far ahead already from a technical standpoint. By getting the early start Nvidia was going to be able to have more control over the narrative. (That last statement would be my observation if his position is correct and not one stated by AdoredTV.)

If AdoredTV is considered a poor source, my apologies. On the other hand, if he is a reliable observer, would that change anyone's view about the inclusion of ray tracing enhancements? (Using the term loosely to encompass both dedicated hardware or more general compute as options.)

I don't have time to start re-watching his videos so I cannot provide a direct link as yet.

I would say he's reliable and credible.
At least as most written sources,

I don't remember him saying that though, or at least in the way you're phrasing it, but it's not like I remember everything people say.
He's also very good at being clear as to sources, his interpretation, citations etc.

NVidia is in a very strong position, even if they came out after amd, their developer relationships, customer mindshare would allow them to ride it out pretty well.

Getting out first isn't a bad thing though, as long as it performs reasonably well before the next batch of cards.

 

[DavidGraham]

Why? Because AMD was far ahead already from a technical standpoint. By getting the early start Nvidia was going to be able to have more control over the narrative. (That last statement would be my observation if his position is correct and not one stated by AdoredTV.)

He never said that. And AMD is far ahead in what exactly?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

How does everyone feel about the "AdoredTV" youtube channel as a source? I ask because a bit back when watching one of his videos, something of possible relevance stuck in my mind. I am unsure which video it was, but basically it stated that Nvidia had to "jump the gun" so to speak when it came to the RTX (ray tracing) series. Why? Because AMD was far ahead already from a technical standpoint. By getting the early start Nvidia was going to be able to have more control over the narrative. (That last statement would be my observation if his position is correct and not one stated by AdoredTV.)

If AdoredTV is considered a poor source, my apologies. On the other hand, if he is a reliable observer, would that change anyone's view about the inclusion of ray tracing enhancements? (Using the term loosely to encompass both dedicated hardware or more general compute as options.)

I don't have time to start re-watching his videos so I cannot provide a direct link as yet.

AdoredTV is a youtube reviewer and commentator, not a source.
Some youtube reviewers/commentators do have industry sources of their own, like e.g. Gamersnexus, but afaik AdoredTV doesn't.


As far as AMD being "far ahead already", I don't frequently follow AdoredTV but the only thing they could be far ahead at the moment is in launching 7nm GPUs for server workloads (i.e. Vega 20). I don't really see how Vega 20 would force nvidia to launch the RTX line which seem to be first and foremost chips geared towards CAD and 3D modelling.
If I had to guess, nvidia actually postponed the launch of consumer Turing/Volta GPUs due to AMD's lack of competition and the mining craze making the same GPUs fly off the shelves for over 2 years.




If by any chance AdoredTV is claiming AMD is "far ahead" because of Radeon Rays / Radeon Pro then he's just plain wrong because nvidia GPUs are as fast if not faster than competing Radeon GPUs at it.

 

[Jay]

AdoredTV is a youtube reviewer and commentator, not a source.
Some youtube reviewers/commentators do have industry sources of their own, like e.g. Gamersnexus, but afaik AdoredTV doesn't.


As far as AMD being "far ahead already", I don't frequently follow AdoredTV but the only thing they could be far ahead at the moment is in launching 7nm GPUs for server workloads (i.e. Vega 20). I don't really see how Vega 20 would force nvidia to launch the RTX line which seem to be first and foremost chips geared towards CAD and 3D modelling.
If I had to guess, nvidia actually postponed the launch of consumer Turing/Volta GPUs due to AMD's lack of competition and the mining craze making the same GPUs fly off the shelves for over 2 years.




If by any chance AdoredTV is claiming AMD is "far ahead" because of Radeon Rays / Radeon Pro then he's just plain wrong because nvidia GPUs are as fast if not faster than competing Radeon GPUs at it.

He does have his own sources, and I'm pretty sure he didn't say what @Silenti thought he said.
It would be worth @Silenti trying to find what he's referring to before this goes too far left trying attribute things to him that may not be the case.

 

[Silenti]

Whoa! ok.

1. - It is going to take me a bit to dig into this. Several hours of videos to dig through. Throw in my wife having a stroke, dealing with speech therapy, disability insurance, FMLA, etc. and my time is minimal.

2. - I could be mistaken but I remember it being read in his voice in my head. I could have misinterpreted but I could swear it was Jim from AdoredTV.

3. I was not trying to start any shit. I am not trying to put words into Jim's mouth. It was literally something that stuck in my head from a few weeks back as something I had never heard or seen discussed as a point anywhere else.

I have a few minutes now but it could take a day before I get to this. Maybe a bit longer.

 

[Xbat]

With the latest news on zen 2 it looks like it's almost guaranteed that the next gen console will have at least 8 cores.

"One of the key upgrades for Zen 2 is the doubling of the core density which means we are now looking at 2x the core count for each core complex (CCX) which will now be risen to 8 per CCX compared to 4 per CCX."

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-7nm-cpu-architecture-epyc-rome-and-ryzen-official/

 

[iroboto]

1. - It is going to take me a bit to dig into this. Several hours of videos to dig through. Throw in my wife having a stroke, dealing with speech therapy, disability insurance, FMLA, etc. and my time is minimal.

I think we all understand where your priorities need to be.
We all wish the best for your family, you don't need to justify anything and focus on what matters.

 

[vipa899]

With the latest news on zen 2 it looks like it's almost guaranteed that the next gen console will have at least 8 cores.

"One of the key upgrades for Zen 2 is the doubling of the core density which means we are now looking at 2x the core count for each core complex (CCX) which will now be risen to 8 per CCX compared to 4 per CCX."

It would be strange a console releasing 2020/21 with less then 8 cores.

 

[Xbat]

There was discussion earlier in the thread where 4 cores or six cores with smt would be enough.

 

[vipa899]

There was discussion earlier in the thread where 4 cores or six cores with smt would be enough.

Maybe it is, it all depends i guess. More cores isnt allways better, as evident with the jaguar cpu. A 4c/8t i7 would perhaps have been better for the PS4.
But i would also think the next consoles will sport no less then 8 cores, as about everything has moved to atleast 8 cores nowadays, in two years time that wont be any less.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I don't see PS5 or Xbox Scarlett having less than 8 core / 16 thread Zen 2.

 

[msia2k75]

Maybe it is, it all depends i guess. More cores isnt allways better, as evident with the jaguar cpu. A 4c/8t i7 would perhaps have been better for the PS4.
But i would also think the next consoles will sport no less then 8 cores, as about everything has moved to atleast 8 cores nowadays, in two years time that wont be any less.

For sure it would have been better, but it doesnt mean they could do it. AMD back then had nothing comparable (plz let's not start with the BD derivative).

 

[vipa899]

I don't see PS5 or Xbox Scarlett having less than 8 core / 16 thread Zen 2.

Same here, as its already available now, it would sure make sense in a 2020 machine.

 

[Jay]

Whoa! ok.

1. - It is going to take me a bit to dig into this. Several hours of videos to dig through. Throw in my wife having a stroke, dealing with speech therapy, disability insurance, FMLA, etc. and my time is minimal.

2. - I could be mistaken but I remember it being read in his voice in my head. I could have misinterpreted but I could swear it was Jim from AdoredTV.

3. I was not trying to start any shit. I am not trying to put words into Jim's mouth. It was literally something that stuck in my head from a few weeks back as something I had never heard or seen discussed as a point anywhere else.

I have a few minutes now but it could take a day before I get to this. Maybe a bit longer.

It wasn't meant as a criticism to you, You never did anything wrong. Just meant it would be useful to know what he actually said, or discuss what you said as it being a general thought.
I remember in one of his vids him talking about the positives and negatives to amd always pushing forward to be on new node first.
Amd didn't have a new architecture ready for this year, and it wasn't looking likely they would or a significantly updated one, so NVidia didn't really have reason to rush it out.

no one thought you was trying to start anything

 

[Silenti]

All good everyone. She gets better, remarkably according to the doctors, everyday. Just going to be slow going.

I was just making sure that no one thought I was throwing shit at a wall or trying to stir the pot or something. Felt like something I needed to do since it may be a bit before I can ferret out the video clip.

 

[Jay]

Same here, as its already available now, it would sure make sense in a 2020 machine.

Personally I do expect 8c.
But just because something's available on pc doesn't make it a shoe in.
The pc space has unlimited head room compared to console who has to work within power, thermal, cost budgets.
even having smt adds to all that.
Consoles are all about making (the right) compromises.

 

[vipa899]

I just hope that PS5 will have BC with PS4 games, cause i think il settle for a PS5 instead of going for a PS4 this late. By the time the PS5 launches, PS4 will have a serious amount of exclusives piled upp in all those years, i could enjoy those in atleast Pro level on a PS5 before native ps5 games see the light. It will be my first new PS since the PS2.

 

[beyondtest]

Whoa! ok.

1. - It is going to take me a bit to dig into this. Several hours of videos to dig through. Throw in my wife having a stroke, dealing with speech therapy, disability insurance, FMLA, etc. and my time is minimal.

2. - I could be mistaken but I remember it being read in his voice in my head. I could have misinterpreted but I could swear it was Jim from AdoredTV.

3. I was not trying to start any shit. I am not trying to put words into Jim's mouth. It was literally something that stuck in my head from a few weeks back as something I had never heard or seen discussed as a point anywhere else.

I have a few minutes now but it could take a day before I get to this. Maybe a bit longer.

Dude! Stay strong! Someone close to us is a stroke survivor.

Please be aggressive as much as possible while being considerate (oxymoron?). AFAIK the earlier she's into activities the better chances for recovery.

Don't give up even with therapists suddenly drop you, still be aggressive with the speech, physical routines for several years even if you have to do it yourself or someone you trust.

More power to you and your family man.

With the latest news on zen 2 it looks like it's almost guaranteed that the next gen console will have at least 8 cores.

"One of the key upgrades for Zen 2 is the doubling of the core density which means we are now looking at 2x the core count for each core complex (CCX) which will now be risen to 8 per CCX compared to 4 per CCX."

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-7nm-cpu-architecture-epyc-rome-and-ryzen-official/

Thanks for sharing.

It would be strange a console releasing 2020/21 with less then 8 cores.

There was discussion earlier in the thread where 4 cores or six cores with smt would be enough.

I don't see PS5 or Xbox Scarlett having less than 8 core / 16 thread Zen 2.

Yep. I've seen it around. I seriously cannot imagine them going back to anything less than 4 cores.

Anandtech said that the 8 core Jags had no match during that time relative to pricing was it?

In its cost and power band, Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/6976...wering-xbox-one-playstation-4-kabini-temash/5

I wouldn't even be surprised if AMD made a similar "tablet cpu" route; 16 true cores that are at least 2.4 Ghz each Zen 3 (three) mobile.or "mobile minus".

I'm guessing a 8c/16t would be more realistic though. Probably at least 3.2 Ghz.

16 threads, 3.2 Ghz looks so easy to market to the crowd coming from PS4 base's 8 cores, 1.6 Ghz, too but I might be overestimating the importance of these numbers. I still think majority of the potential buyers aren't us here in tech/game forums and these types of marketing work well on most people.

 

[BRiT]

Discussion about AMD's CPU moved to the appropriate thread: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...000-speculation-rumours-and-discussion.60918/

 

[goonergaz]

Whoa! ok.

1. - It is going to take me a bit to dig into this. Several hours of videos to dig through. Throw in my wife having a stroke, dealing with speech therapy, disability insurance, FMLA, etc. and my time is minimal.

2. - I could be mistaken but I remember it being read in his voice in my head. I could have misinterpreted but I could swear it was Jim from AdoredTV.

3. I was not trying to start any shit. I am not trying to put words into Jim's mouth. It was literally something that stuck in my head from a few weeks back as something I had never heard or seen discussed as a point anywhere else.

I have a few minutes now but it could take a day before I get to this. Maybe a bit longer.

Sorry to hear that, I hope you get through it ok and things work out.