That's missing the point and why I responded to MrFox. Thurrott put his neck on the line by being very specific and will look the fool if he got had. It brings more credibility than general maybe this, maybe that.
Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]
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They would suffer some. Not sure about absolutely slaughtered.
bitsandbytes
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Not Thurrott. Windows Central in December 2017 broke the Scarlet news AFAIK.
Maybe PS5 has no BC. Maybe Sony doesn't expect BC to be ready for launch.
anexanhume
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The posters in question have previously submitted proof of their position of knowledge to forum administrators. It’s how people get their tags on RE.
Launch is arguably the time when BC is most important. I imagine they’d prioritize it. I could see a boost mode getting delayed, but not base compatibility.
I think the same and could see that core BC might be a cause to delay the entire hardware launch if it's not ready. It has more value early on in the life-cycle of a next-gen console.
I think on this note, the hardware is only half the story and the OS services and features are the other half. There is a degree of being able to match your competitor and one up them, but it's also a big part of doing what you think is the future of gaming, trying to shape the landscape to your strengths.
So to that end, I would say that Sony is looking at what MS _has_ done. Not what MS will be doing. They're looking at what they have done and see if their customers really value these features. They're out there looking to see if these things are necessary for investment etc. Some of the things Sony might be able to do, some of the things they won't be able to do. This is the nature of business, MS has resources that Sony cannot match. And Sony has resources that MS cannot match.
there will always be games, 3P games make up a big majority of all game sales. PS4 owes a ton of it's success to it's 3P strengths over it's competition until the Xbox One X arrived. It was the best place to play 3P and 1P. So you're right in that the argument is dumb, 3P matters every bit as much and likely more than 1P but many console warriors like to take 3P for granted.
Everything we saw was for 4Pro? So even if those games aren't ready by 2019, they're still coming to PS4 family by 2020. I don't think PS4 will fade out in the year where it drops Ghost and TLOU2.
I hope Sony has the foresight to offer backwards compatibility out of the box at launch. It's a no brainer at this point. Working with AMD for their next console it should make it an easier target than switching to a completely different architecture. It shouldn't prove to be an insurmountable hurdle by the time they launch their new system. That would be a blunder by them no doubt.
I am interested in seeing what their next PSVR offering is. Will they make a big push for it when PS5 is launched and release them simultaneously? If patent apps are anything to go by they appear to be working on a glove that will allow greater accuracy of hand tracking in VR games. And there is some smell presentation device that if accurate could really help immerse in the VR world. I imagine the success rate of PSVR would be higher if it's available at launch or shortly thereafter.
I am interested in seeing what their next PSVR offering is. Will they make a big push for it when PS5 is launched and release them simultaneously? If patent apps are anything to go by they appear to be working on a glove that will allow greater accuracy of hand tracking in VR games. And there is some smell presentation device that if accurate could really help immerse in the VR world. I imagine the success rate of PSVR would be higher if it's available at launch or shortly thereafter.
In theory couldn't some of the design still be largely on paper and in testing waiting for die shrinks, testing and revisions at this point? If AMD has a roadmap surely some of the design can be on paper per an internal roadmap waiting no?
There would be risk of delays but with both Sony and Microsoft using basic design and major purchasers couldn't it be manageable?
I could see three possible BC offerings on PS5, all involving closely matching CPU performance of base/pro consoles but with varying levels of GPU offerings:
#1 PS5 switches to the base PS4 hardware emulation mode [8 downclocked CPU threads, 18 downclocked GPU CUs that target 1.8TF]
#2 PS4 Pro emulation [8 downclocked CPU threads, 36 downclocked GPU CUs that target 4.2TF]
#3 boost mode PS4 Pro emulation [8 downclocked CPU threads, 36 fully unleashed GPU CUs, unknown TF].
Tkumpathenurple
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True, but the "best place to play" argument is similarly only the domain of console warriors. When you speak to Joe Blogs about the game he's playing on his inferior platform, he doesn't care about the lower resolution or anisotropic filtering, he only cares that he can play the game.
I remember being a kid when GTA Vice City released on the Xbox. The few kids that owned an Xbox loved showing off the fact that you could now see each character's fingers, individually rendered. No-one else gave a shit.
And it's pretty much always that way. Can they play the games they want? If yes, that's good enough. As we get closer to the next generation, it's only Nintendo that may struggle on that front.
Same. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it. Mostly, I just hope that the PS5 comes with a split DualShock, so it launches ready for motion tracked hands with tactile feedback.
Yes, I never understood why anyone would sacrifice an exclusive to play a better version of a game. I mean, PS is still outstanding Xbox yet it has TT he best version of all the games.
I posted on era that I think LoU2 & GoT might launch with a fully BC PS5 - what better time to upgrade!?
Tkumpathenurple
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Yup. Although it depends on the exclusives available, and whether or not they matter to you. I don't care about Halo, Gears of War, or Forza, which means the Xbox has nothing to offer me. Some people love those series and couldn't give a flying fiddler's fuck about The Last Guardian...
And if none of those matter to someone, then best performance or lowest price do. And I bet the latter wins almost every time.
And if none of those matter to someone, then best performance or lowest price do. And I bet the latter wins almost every time.
bitsandbytes
Newcomer
It seems 2019 for PS5 is very much still in the balance going by the various forum chatter. At what point will a decision on it need to be made?
We are already about to be in October 2018 after all...
We are already about to be in October 2018 after all...
If late 2019 is still on the cards, 1st/2nd party is already working on a 1 or 2 launch window games [Horizon 2 by GG is a prime candidate], but true point of no return is deployment of knowledge and devkits to 3rd parties. That can happen before GDC in March [like it was with PS4] or before E3 2019 [since dev tools are now very streamlined and there are no big architecture changes].
And if PS5 launches in late 2019, IMO PS4 Pro looses its reason to be on the market. At that point, Pro should get discontinued and fully BC-capable PS5 slotted in its $400€ place. After all, it will boot PS4 games in Pro mode with high-res rendering & all. Base PS4 can continue selling [hopefully with 7nm APU and pricedrop] until all currently announced 1st party titles are out [some will be 2020 most likely] and major 3rd party support switches to gen9.
I think similar should happen if PS5 is targeting Q1 2020 launch [trying to emulate Switch launch, with strong spring/summer sales before arrival of big holiday titles].
And if PS5 launches in late 2019, IMO PS4 Pro looses its reason to be on the market. At that point, Pro should get discontinued and fully BC-capable PS5 slotted in its $400€ place. After all, it will boot PS4 games in Pro mode with high-res rendering & all. Base PS4 can continue selling [hopefully with 7nm APU and pricedrop] until all currently announced 1st party titles are out [some will be 2020 most likely] and major 3rd party support switches to gen9.
I think similar should happen if PS5 is targeting Q1 2020 launch [trying to emulate Switch launch, with strong spring/summer sales before arrival of big holiday titles].
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bitsandbytes
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I agree except the last part. I can't see them targeting Q1 2020. If it launches then it will be because something went wrong/didn't come off with Q4 2019 plans IMO.
The other problem with it would be when they would reveal it? Q3/4 2019 seems like it would risk affecting late 2019 games/HW sales? Also when do devs get the full details of the system when GDC is in March?
The leaks from GDC would undermine a reveal if it came after it. January-mid March seems to be the sweet spot for a reveal. Given the higher than normal number of games that pushed into January/February next year I would say first half of March.
Early March - Reveal
Late March - GDC full dev disclosure and no more worries about leaks/NDAs
June - E3 Full blowout
Nov/Dec - Launch
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
Potentially. I hope for a two tier launch. If there is one, I think you're absolutely right: the Pro wouldn't have a market. But, if there's a $200 PS4 Super Slim and a $450-$500 PS5, a mid-tier device would continue to attract sales IMO.
It's part of the reason I like the idea of a two tier launch: release a $200 7nm PS4 without an HDD or ODD, with a focus on Remote Play and PSNow. Better integrate PSNow, so, in addition to its current functionality, you can stream any game you own digitally. Now, people can buy PS5 games before they buy a PS5, and the cost of entry into the ecosystem is minimal. All the while, Sony are getting their PSNow subscription money.
$400 has proven to be a successful launch price. So launch the PS5 at that price, with a focus on 30fps 1440p and above, and simultaneously launch the PS5 Pro with a focus on 60fps 4K (reconstructed or otherwise,) at a much higher price. This is the device on which PSNow games would run, with the higher framerate and resolution somewhat compensating for the inherent shortcomings of streaming.
And for big, fat nerds like all of us, that latter device would be irresistible
Totally agree, but I think the market that has in interest in either set of exclusives is quite small. XB fans seem rabid over Forza and Halo and likewise PS fans over thier equivalents.
So I forgot to add Horizon 2 and Death Stranding to my list of launch titles. That would be fairly awesome!
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps5-still-three-years-off-says-playstation-boss/1100-6459155/
I think this is more reasonable since the timeline is revealed by SIE.
Look at the rapid price drop of SSD: cheaper 500 GB SSD is below 80 dollars now. By the time of 2021, SSD is cheap enough to become standard storage device of consoles. PS5 targets true next-gen gaming then it needs 3 years for everying: large, fast SSD, 7nm+ process and ray-tracing hardware.
I think this is more reasonable since the timeline is revealed by SIE.
Look at the rapid price drop of SSD: cheaper 500 GB SSD is below 80 dollars now. By the time of 2021, SSD is cheap enough to become standard storage device of consoles. PS5 targets true next-gen gaming then it needs 3 years for everying: large, fast SSD, 7nm+ process and ray-tracing hardware.
Interesting timeline if accurate. And considering the quality of games/gameplay/graphics we are getting out of all the current systems, a wait is proably a good idea. I'm still extremely impressed with the fidelity of titles hitting the boxes currently. I mean if upcoming games can match or exceed the likes of God of War, Spider Man, or Forza Horizon 4, I think a wait for true beastly hardware with fast storage is a must.
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