Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Tkumpathenurpahl, Jan 19, 2018.

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  1. bgroovy

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    Yeah, I thought smart assistant integration was a sure thing Baseline feature for next gen. Ironically MS is both early to the party in addition to being way too late. They were trying to push this stuff with a $500 device when it's been proven a $30 mic would have been gobbled up. Microsoft's fixation on the 3d camera really made them miss the forest for the trees.
     
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  2. BRiT

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    I'm having mixed results with Amazon voice control. Its mostly a conflict with my Harmony skill on the Echo, net result is I always have to add on "on my xbox" or "tell xbox". The accuracy of the Echo (~ 95%) is almost to the original Xbox Kinect Controls (99%) for me, but not quite there. Its easily several orders of magnitudes better than "Hey Cortona" commands (~ 5%).

    I think MS will carry this forward to next-gen. I think Sony would be wise to integrate as well for PS4 and PS5.
     
  3. iroboto

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    I agree, with the originals TV bit, being able to control Xbox using smart devices was something they should have had a handle on. I don’t think they were thinking “big” enough back then.

    Good to see it finally return though. I can only suspect to see these features for next gen and more matured.

    Offload the voice processing to these te smart devices and just take in commands is a much smarter way of doing things than building your own hardware support to process it.
     
  4. Vega86

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    Would this kind of hardware be realistic at $ 400 if the PlayStation V or Xbox RX to release sometime in 2019?

    8 Cores, no SMT, 3.2 Ghz Zen or Zen+
    12 TF with some RT hardware and much better upscaling/dynamic resolution technologies
    12 GB HBM2 or 3 + 4 GB DDR4 3200 Mhz
    1 TB HDD
    Minor upgrades from the DS4 controller

    If it were me I'd slightly prefer a much later release with these targets anywhere from $ 500 to $ 600:

    16 Cores, 3.2 Ghz Zen+ or Zen 2
    15 TF with better feature set than the above 2019 model
    16 GB HBM3 + 8 GB DDR4 3200 Mhz
    128 GB SSD OS and/or Cache
    1 TB HDD
     
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  5. cheapchips

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    Kinect style cameras and mics have been miniaturised and cost reduced to such a degree I'm sort of hoping the whole thing returns for Xbox2. I've no idea why. Possibly a secret desire to learn some great dance moves.
     
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  6. Heinrich4

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    I particularly prefer an option with at least 2 times more memory than xbox one 12GB,, but hardware at $ 400 with the above-mentioned with some custom RT processing settings at the hands of a N.Dog, Santa Monica , Guerrilla etc would be very impressive.
    ( PS5 with minimum 8GB GDDR6 + 16GB GDDR3 / DDR4 for a console to last something like 5/6+years?)
     
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  7. McHuj

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    Kinect was really ahead of its time and thus not really ready. I think it could work now if were to utilitize neural network processing for speech and motion tracking. But I still wouldn’t want it as a forced pack in nextgen.
     
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  8. BRiT

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    I don't see any RT hardware as being possible at that pricepoint unless AMD has some hidden unannounced architectures and is willing to give it away for free, at least without the insane profit margins Nvidia is having on RT GPU hardware, or somehow Nvidia feels like abandoning their insane profit margins and giving away their RT GPU for no profit. I just don't see that making any business sense for AMD or Nvidia.
     
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  9. London Geezer

    London Geezer Shifty's daddy
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    Isn’t real time ray tracing just part of the new DirectX feature set and, for all intents and purposes, something that can be accelerated with the right type and amount of computational power? Regardless of next gen consoles, AMD will eventually release something to support DXR in some way, and the technology will progress from RTX.
    Personally, I don’t think the results I’ve seen from Nvidia actually justify the performance hit. As far as what they’ve shown so far.
     
  10. Jupiter

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    If it is well done it theoretically runs even faster than without raytracing. Finally one does not have to use the cuda cores for Screen Space Reflections etc. anymore. Screen Space Reflections can cost up to 30 % alone.
     
    #2610 Jupiter, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  11. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil my grapes.
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    It'll be interesting to see how this all develops. A 775mm2 die, manufactured on 12nm, seems awfully large and expensive for the 1080p30 demos we've seen so far.

    It's cool tech, and I'm thrilled that we're finally on the precipice of widespread adoption, but it's early days, and the tech demos we saw don't really look better than their non - RT versions.

    If you run around in Battlefield looking only at puddles, then yes, ray traced does look better, but I'm not convinced that better puddle reflections are all that important or visible to the lay person.

    Moore's law is nearly dead, and things like dedicated ray tracing hardware are going to become more prevalent the longer it's been buried. But right now, as 7nm enters full swing, with 5nm and 3nm to come, I think it's a valid choice for Sony and Microsoft to stay traditional, and let AMD and Nvidia test the waters for a few years.
     
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  12. London Geezer

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    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for RT, but as I’ve said, what we’ve seen so far is not a justifiable compromise. 1080p needs to go away. I’m sure with time it will be better.
     
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  13. dogen

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    I don't see why a zen based console wouldn't have SMT. Seems like it would be a practically free upgrade. You can't saturate those massively cores normally.
     
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  14. VitaminB6

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    It will be interesting to see if next gen consoles have more than one type of memory. I really thought Microsoft was going to have a split pool for the X. 8 gig GDDR5 and 4 gig DDR3/4. Isn't there an obvious advantage having two pools of ram to avoid contention? They talked up the advantage of this with ESRAM but I think a lot of what Microsoft said was to mask some of this issues it caused for developers. Is the reason they chose not to due to design costs? Obviously it would've been cheaper for the ram itself.
     
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  15. bgroovy

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    If you're going to have two pools of RAM there's no reason to limit yourself to such small amounts. The big advantage would be capacity. Something like 8GB HBM for VRAM could be paired with 32GB DDR4 main memory. There would be advantages in contention, but disadvantages in needing to move data.
     
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  16. MrFox

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    That would be over $350 of ram right now, it would need a crazy price drop in the next 2 years.
     
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  17. dten

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    Looks like next gen console will be just RAM.
     
  18. bgroovy

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    I've said it before. No one should launch next gen machines if they are stuck with barely any RAM increase. I think companies should wait until at least 32GB is viable.
     
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  19. Vega86

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    True. I also usually think into what could look pleasing to the eye of the regular consumer. 24GB total ram definitely looks much better and so does 16 Threads. It looks better on comparison tables for retail but perhaps I'm not giving enough credit to today's regular console consumers.

    I honestly got excited with Kinect. I thought MS would create a real AAA game that truly shows Kinect's features.

    Something like Mass Effect where I can command and point AI allies that can also be commanded via voice controls or an AAA MS Exclusive TLoU clone where my AI partner realistically reacts to my expressions and body gesture.

    It doesn't have to be Nvidia's expensive RT hardware nor top of the line but I'm not sure about such expenses.

    All I heard was that Tensore Cores, etc. are not proprietary.

    Maybe some sort of market positioning across several products even including AMD's own could be factors.

    Smaller chance of cannibalization perhaps?

    Controller pricing? Ryzen 7 on a 399 2019 complete gaming package might seem too low for profit for AMD/Sony.

    Amazing if they're willing to give it out of the gate with that release date and price since I hear that programs get a massive boost with SMT on if properly coded for such.

    I'm not too sure about the architectures but Ryzen 3 doesn't seem to have SMT. I am not sure if that's just artificial but Ryzen 3 seem to stop at 4C/4T and Ryzen 7 with 8C/16 T. Somewhere there in the middle I suppose that may even look more custom to the public.

    Could also be barred artificially for that inevitable PS5 Pro and would seem to appear much better with 16 Threads.

    By the way, is Ryzen 3 even true Zen since it doesn't have SMT? I am not knowledgeable on this matter.

    Release date and price. Maybe 16 GB VRAM, 16 GB RAM at most even for a 2021 release unless parts suddenly become much cheaper. I hope that happens.

    Hope RAM/VRAM drop prices as fast as possible.
     
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  20. Vega86

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    Interesting.

    I actually don't know what target Sony and MS should aim for at this point.

    Closest I can think of is literally just through the standard release dates that's anywhere from 5-7 years. More about consumer habits and marketing rather than what I've heard of at least wanting minimum of 8x/4x of whichever hardware component compared to previous gen.

    In fact, I'm interested to see if Sony and MS cuts generations to something like 4 years with no mid-gen hardware refresh but with increase console prices.

    Maybe by then, exactly "when" a console gen should start or end may feel quite arbitrary.

    I sometimes read tech is slowing down. Maybe high retention of prices would be inevitable and would make the short console cycles less viable.
     
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