Next Gen Graphic Effects Are Amazing (Xbox 360, PS3)

[Hardknock]

(Oh, and one look at screenshots for Kameo on GS only illustrates how easy it is to pick and choose views that show better and poorer texturing - just like MGS4 If texturing is your thing, clarficiation as to the filtering issue on X360 games, if it still exists, might also have seemed more pressing).

Again, nobody was "picking and choosing" anything. There are only 10 or so shots from MGS4 and they all show the same issues with textures. Plus they all come straight from the developer(which I would guess they show the game in the best possible light.) Vysez agrees that the textures for walls and things are really low rez. Whether that will be improved or not remains to be seen.

 

[Hardknock]

*glares at Hardknock menacingly

You can see the imperfections through screenshots but part of the amazement (for me) comes from the fluidity of the animation and the nice high poly character models.

whew, I should have known better than to point out any flaws with the holier-than-thou MGS4

Don't just dwell on that one part man, check out what else I said

This is not a knock on MGS4 because I think the smoke, lighting and character models are excellent. Snake in MGS4 has more polygons than any other character I've seen for Next-gen so far. It appears to be a trade off of sorts.

 

[BlueTsunami]

whew, I should have known better than to point out any flaws with the holier-than-thou MGS4

Don't just dwell on that one part man, check out what else I said

I know, I know

I like it but I don't hold it as the end all product of MGS4 like some fans do. I'm also waiting for the gameplay elements. But truth be told, it was always the cinematic aspects thats drawn me to the MGS series.

With that said, you can really see textures that are totally out of place with the character models. I'm waiting to see how far they've gotten at E3 06'.

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

Yeah, the texturing on MGS4 is horrible IMO. Check out these screens and look at the wall and the tank:

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/reviews/926596_20050916_screen005.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/reviews/926596_20050916_screen006.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/reviews/926596_20050916_screen004.jpg

Contrast those with the superior textures in Kameo and Gears Of War.

We already come to the conclusion in another thread that most of the textures in the MGS4 demo were imported from MGS3 in order to get the demo ready for TGS.

 

[joebloggs]

Some of you really need to grow up. These agenda-pushing comparisons are pathetic.

 

[Titanio]

Again, nobody was "picking and choosing" anything. There are only 10 or so shots from MGS4 and they all show the same issues with textures. Plus they all come straight from the developer(which I would guess they show the game in the best possible light.) Vysez agrees that the textures for walls and things are really low rez. Whether that will be improved or not remains to be seen.

That's cool, I just was comparing with Kameo as you asked, and it's easy to see a mixed texturing quality also.

 

[London Geezer]

What's this thread about again?

More useless comparions between games and demos? Or between unfinished games and even less finished games?

I guess, now we have THREE boards to compare apples to oranges, so it can only get worse.

 

[Jawed]

Two features that are definitely usable in Xenos and definitely not in RSX (if based upon G70): vertex texturing and dynamic branching.

G70's basically so slow with these two techniques that they can't be used to improve visuals or make the shaders run more quickly.

Xenos also provides tessellation (no need to use CPU power) and particle generation (again, no need to use CPU power).

Vertex texturing (for displacement mapping), and tessellation are specifically going to help XB360 games look "high poly".

Jawed

 

[Farid]

G70's basically so slow with these two techniques that they can't be used to improve visuals or make the shaders run more quickly.

I think that Warhawk (PS3) uses Vertex Texturing for the water.

Edit: It's just an observation, it could also be a pixel shader on a rippling poligonal surface. I can't tell for sure from the video.

 

[Hardknock]

Hey Vysez do you happen to have a link to that video? :smile:

 

[Bad_Boy]

Hey Vysez do you happen to have a link to that video? :smile:

i think he is refering to this one. http://69.26.178.132/~lemon/Warhawk.wmv

 

[Hardknock]

i think he is refering to this one. http://69.26.178.132/~lemon/Warhawk.wmv

thanks, water looked pretty sweet. To me it looked like a polygonal ripple with specular lighting.

 

[Titanio]

thanks, water looked pretty sweet. To me it looked like a polygonal ripple with specular lighting.

I think that's possibly a hallmark of using vertex texturing - there's actually geometry there (or appears to be).

There's more on it here: http://developer.nvidia.com/object/using_vertex_textures.html

Warhawk's implementation bears similar characteristics to some of the shots in there.

 

[PC-Engine]

Embm

 

[tahrikmili]

I'll pick high quality textures and mapping over higher polycounts. It just makes a very big difference and I think we are still seeing very little of what can be achieve with mapping, it's come a long way since basic bump mapping and I'm sure a more organic and less artificial method (less plasticky/glossy) will be found soon. Even as it is, I really like this techonolgy, I'm in love with Doom 3 engine graphics and the Gears of War video, for example.

 

[drpepper]

LOL, well let me just say, look at what happened to PD0, its initial texture detail (E3) was crappy as well, and look at how it turned out. To apply the same mentality to MGS4.... well, you're just asking for it. What is impressive is not only its graphical quality (early build yet still impressive) but its cinematic direction. Also the attention to detail is unrivaled. Having the soldier tap each other on the back to move foreward are the subtleties MGS fans expect.

 

[mech]

True, I don't expect any huge differences, but if one machine was particularly better at shading and texturing wouldn't that enable more advanced effects?



With MS owning DirectX, I'm pretty sure they are allowing ATi to put more advanced(unreleased) features into Xenos that RSX won't have...

Yeah, the texturing on MGS4 is horrible IMO. Check out these screens and look at the wall and the tank:

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/reviews/926596_20050916_screen005.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/reviews/926596_20050916_screen006.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/reviews/926596_20050916_screen004.jpg

Contrast those with the superior textures in Kameo and Gears Of War.

This is not a knock on MGS4 because I think the smoke, lighting and character models are excellent. Snake in MGS4 has more polygons than any other character I've seen for Next-gen so far. It appears to be a trade off of sorts.

One thing to think about though is a high-polygon model is immediately noticable on either high-def or Standard Def TV. SDTV users will be very happy with MGS4's graphics because they don't have the resolution to see the low-res textures. So that might be why Konami went that route, but the low-res textures might turn a few HDTV owners off. Now with the more detailed and advanced texture techniques(like what we see in GOW and Kameo), it takes an HDTV to truly appreciate them. So HDTV owners would be very happy, but it would be harder for SDTV owners to distinguish any differences from this gen.

"Horrible"? Wtf? I've seen screen grabs of Kameo with textures that look that bad. It looks fantastic. How can you say "it's not a knock on MGS4" but "the texturing on MGS4 is horrible IMO"? Wow, there are a couple of blurry textures - the majority look great. We're still not at a point where every little thing in a game is going to have a crystal clear texture map unfortunately.

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

i think he is refering to this one. http://69.26.178.132/~lemon/Warhawk.wmv

OMFG, that is with-out a dout the best water ive seen in a game thus far.

 

[Titanio]

"Horrible"? Wtf? I've seen screen grabs of Kameo with textures that look that bad. It looks fantastic. How can you say "it's not a knock on MGS4" but "the texturing on MGS4 is horrible IMO"?

Yeah, looking at CoD2 shots in another thread hammered home to me how relative the "texturing" argument re. MGS4 is. The texturing is better than most games out there still from what I can see. It might not be as perfect as other aspects of the demo, but to say it's horrible is a bit of a leap.

 

[Kill_Jade]

whats with all this games looking so shiny? is this going to be an ongoing thing this new gen cause it's quit annoying. everything in PDZ looks like some maid just washed and waxed it. normal/parallex mapping are all cool but i would rather not have my brick walls reflect my face.