News & Rumours: Playstation 4/ Orbis *spin*

Status
Not open for further replies.
Silent_Buddha said:
Yup, I have a feeling 4k is going to be even more niche than Laser Disc was. :)

Regards,
SB
Click to expand...

That sounds very possible if Sony is the only player in the market :)

With enough content the market will be at least as big as Laserdiscs, there is enough people out there willing to do whatever it takes to get the best home movie experience. So many that laserdiscs where a real market.
 
LuckyGuess said:
Why double handle and slow the machine reaching the first boot screen? ~ Do the install in the background. Every penny helps.
Click to expand...

You can only do this to a point, the HD is very much faster than the BR disk.
While not caching/installing to HD maybe initially faster every subsequent launch would be slower. Also without the option of a compulsory install or at least some game managed cache you are limited by the characteristics of the optical drive which is far from ideal for streaming games.

There is a secondary issue if every title is available for download ideally with a single submission process in that the game has to function without the optical disk being present.

But just because an install is mandatory does not mean t needs to be insert disk wait for install to complete, it could be done relatively transparently.
 
ERP said:
You can only do this to a point, the HD is very much faster than the BR disk.
While not caching/installing to HD maybe initially faster every subsequent launch would be slower. Also without the option of a compulsory install or at least some game managed cache you are limited by the characteristics of the optical drive which is far from ideal for streaming games.
Click to expand...


During February's PlayStation Live Event, Mr. Cerny was very clear about a sleep mode = /Suspending to RAM/ existing. S mode uses only 4watts?
I read into the meaning of these details, the HDD isn't necessary to instantly resume a game.
When the Game is in RAM, then this precluded, an /assumed/ HDD mandatory install being faster than BR.
 
LuckyGuess said:
During February's PlayStation Live Event, Mr. Cerny was very clear about a sleep mode = /Suspending to RAM/ existing. S mode uses only 4watts?
I read into the meaning of these details, the HDD isn't necessary to instantly resume a game.
When the Game is in RAM, then this precluded, an /assumed/ HDD mandatory install being faster than BR.
Click to expand...

Suspend to RAM is orthogonal, the entire game is not going to be in RAM, games continually read data, it as to come from the BR or the HD, if you can't guarantee the location you have to assume the performance of the optical disc.
 
ERP said:
Suspend to RAM is orthogonal, the entire game is not going to be in RAM, games continually read data, it as to come from the BR or the HD, if you can't guarantee the location you have to assume the performance of the optical disc.
Click to expand...

Pretend as a launch developer, I was instructed to use 4GB of GDDR5 for active game play.
(no one heard of any greater value before the 2013 PS Live Event, right?)

Buffer, stream, precue/cache BR into RAM while you play. Sony may have figured doubling to 8GB made it possible to shit a base model that lacked an HDD. Suspend to RAM only costs consumers 4watts...instead of $50 for an HDD.

Live Event, to Memory?
 
Where are all the downloadable games going to fit in that scenario?

edit: That, and Sony said there would be significant permanent storage.
 
I suspect the Secondary Custom Chip may be useful here. Besides background download/upload, it should be able to handle caching/installing from BR to HDD in the background too.

3dilettante said:
Where are all the downloadable games going to fit in that scenario?

edit: That, and Sony said there would be significant permanent storage.
Click to expand...

The SCC (For Christ sake, give it a proper name, Sony) will perform background download, and perhaps install them to the HDD. In PS3, they separate the install from the background download (It will only install automatically if the download is foreground).
 
3dilettante said:
Where are all the downloadable games going to fit in that scenario?

edit: That, and Sony said there would be significant permanent storage.
Click to expand...

Yes. Sony emphasized every single game would be available in digital format. They're just deciding how large the storage is at base. It's not a question of whether to include it or whether it needs to be capable of holding several 20+GB games.
 
I wouldn't preclude a mix of intelligent caching and install. HDD is still slow (for a large install) if they want "instant gaming".

It will be "funny" when the same Gaikai games start faster than BR ones.

EDIT: It may also complicate progressive download of games. Caching/installing/downloading/disc streaming is certainly a big topic in itself.
 
I was addressing the idea of a HDD-free PS4.

The one thing I can see happening is users abusing the suspend to RAM function as turning the system off without needing to perform the final save of the night or they suspend and forget.
This works up until the point the power goes out.

I wouldn't mind a discreet copy to permanent as a just-in-case recovery method.
 
3dilettante said:
I was addressing the idea of a HDD-free PS4.
Click to expand...

To lower cost for a small Flash drive SKU like the Slim Slim PS3 ?
I am indifferent.

The one thing I can see happening is users abusing the suspend to RAM function as turning the system off without needing to perform the final save of the night or they suspend and forget.
This works up until the point the power goes out.

I wouldn't mind a discreet copy to permanent as a just-in-case recovery method.
Click to expand...

The rumors also mentioned 16GB Flash RAM for OS firmware and other system activities (inaccessible to apps). Like the Vita's built-in 4GB Flash RAM (The press releases don't have any info on it, until someone opened up the Vita). Should I believe or ridicule it ? :p
 
patsu said:
The rumors also mentioned 16GB Flash RAM for OS firmware and other system activities. Like the Vita's built-in 4GB Flash RAM. Should I believe or ridicule it ? :p
Click to expand...

That would be nice, although it would be a cost adder.
I had an idea a while back before the disclosure of the Other Stuff processor and mechanical storage that the discussions of an ARM background processor could mean a somewhat over-engineered SSD controller, since those are ARM processors anyway.
The flash storage, standby networking, and background processing could come in a neat package.
 
3dilettante said:
I was addressing the idea of a HDD-free PS4.

The one thing I can see happening is users abusing the suspend to RAM function as turning the system off without needing to perform the final save of the night or they suspend and forget.
This works up until the point the power goes out.

I wouldn't mind a discreet copy to permanent as a just-in-case recovery method.
Click to expand...

With a modest flash memory of some sort, automatic check point saves, don't require any forethought. Even better, suspend to cache could automatically meant a system note, to what ever storage is in play.

A 16GB rumor, would completely reflect my imagination.

8GB of GDDR5 (Pre-Buffering 1-2GB BR Cache) and then 8GB-16GB Flash with the basest system. Gaikai streaming video gaming, (like running your bot around in online RPG's) makes the HDDless Demo gaming sales model completely possible. All models are guaranteed to have space for an HDD or proprietary HDD. But I see no reason to leave themselves open to MS undercutting their system prices (with a 4GB flash card) the same way it happened with the PS3.

Sounding like they could deliver everything promised, and save some people $50-$100?
 
Cutting mass storage means cutting into the PS4's ability to offer easy downloadable game purchases, multiple installs, and paid content consumption. It would give gamers a slightly cheaper SKU that Sony would make less money from in the long run.

The promised pre-emptive downloading function is going to be a lot less liked if it cuts into 8 or so GB of flash storage, rather than hundreds to possibly thousands of GB of a hard disk.
 
Two models like last time.

People who, can not afford the HDD model. = People likely to have slow internet connections. Right?

Slow internet not likely to download more than a few gigabytes at a time.

I would suggest testing things with only 8GB Flash Card (30-40MB/sec? having 16GB = slower speed = twice the time, not likely an improvement over 8GB. Xbox360 still sells only 4GB for a reason. I'd stop at 8GB) Anyone who is later willing to pay $16-$33 for a 16GB-32GB Flash card, is more likely to spend $50 for 320GB HDD. Use direct hardware HDD encryption to Transfer chip into GDDR5 and make a little money on HDD storage, while protecting PS4 from Pirated Game Content.
 
May be too early. When they introduced PS3, the high end model sold much better. When stock is limited, they may focus mainly on the high end.

I do expect MS to take the Nintendo Wii way to sell to a broader base from the get go.
 
LuckyGuess said:
With 12x Blu-ray drives being on the market...

PS4, how much longer is a 6x drive supposed to endure use? 54MB/sec would be great.
Also I thought Continuous Angular Speed meant there was no change from inside to outside edge.

~ It seemed a lot cooler when PS2 devs were placing data on the edge for higher read speeds.
Click to expand...

CAV (constant angular velocity) means the disk always spins at the same speed and hence the inner tracks will have a slower transfer speed than the outer tracks.

CLV (constant linear velocity) means that the drives constantly modify the spindle speed such that each track maintains a rated speed. In this case the drive spins fastest while reading the inner tracks and slowest when reading the outer tracks.

ZCLV (zoned constant linear velocity) is a compromise between the two. Rather than continuously changing the spindle speed as CLV does, it instead has zones (with CD's it was usually 3-7 zones depending on speed and manufacturer). Each zone was basically CAV, but each zone's spindle speed dropped as you moved towards the outer track.

LuckyGuess said:
Two models like last time.

People who, can not afford the HDD model. = People likely to have slow internet connections. Right?

Slow internet not likely to download more than a few gigabytes at a time.

I would suggest testing things with only 8GB Flash Card (30-40MB/sec? having 16GB = slower speed = twice the time, not likely an improvement over 8GB. Xbox360 still sells only 4GB for a reason. I'd stop at 8GB) Anyone who is later willing to pay $16-$33 for a 16GB-32GB Flash card, is more likely to spend $50 for 320GB HDD. Use direct hardware HDD encryption to Transfer chip into GDDR5 and make a little money on HDD storage, while protecting PS4 from Pirated Game Content.
Click to expand...

The problem there again as was mentioned before. Then you have to design all games such they will run at the slowest data transfer speed possible.

With a console with 8 GB of storage only that means you have to design a game that can run on as little as 1 Mbit/s (0.12 MB/s) as you are going to have to constantly be streaming in data from the internet for digitally distributed games (which means all PS3 games from what Sony has said). And yes, 1 Mbit/s broadband is still around. Even bumping that up to 8 Mbit/s only gets you close to 1 MB/s of data transfer.

In other words, it'll never happen. For best visuals on next gen consoles, HDD installs are going to have to be mandatory, IMO.

Regards,
SB
 
Pretty sure PS4 will require mandatory full installs. Sony would be stupid to allow streaming games of a BD disk at this point.

Every PS4 SKU will come with at least a 500GB HDD.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top