News & Rumours: Playstation 4/ Orbis *spin*

[rockaman]

It's also worth noticing that PlayStation is abut the only strong Brand Sony has left, I think. they ahven't anything like Trinitron or Walkman any more, and the likes of Bravia and Xperia aren't taking the world by storm. PlayStation still has some brand punch.

The buzz on the Xperia line is very positive, and Xperia is one of the top selling smartphone series.

They have also been scaling back their TV production. On top of that, they have finally left a deal to develop screens with partners, which turned out to be too expensive, and can look for global market determined rates to purchase screens of the same high quality at a cheaper price.

They also are now involved in fabricating the highest quality CMOS sensors, built by Sony themselves, to go into their own high end cameras and their competitors high end cameras (e.g. Nikon). See the Xperia Z and ZL for an example of their incredible camera technology.

And lastly, the yen has finally taken a hit and now Sony and Nintendo and other Japanese exporters can breathe a sigh of relief. If the yen maintains it's low currency exchange rates, it will be an extremely beneficial thing to Japanese exporters who can expect an instant boost to revenues without depending on absolute sales increases.

In all, expect Sony to be much more price competitive and feature competitive under the direction of Hirai and with the Japanese yen at a much more palatable currency exchange rate.

Sony: they ain't dead quite yet

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The buzz on the Xperia line is very positive, and Xperia is one of the top selling smartphone series.

Googled "xperia market share", and first article is this. 1/6th Samsung's share over summer in UK. It's interesting that it goes on to say that Sony are linked to making the next Nexus phone - a Google brand that's decidedly popular.

(Sony makes stuff)

Sure, but I'm talking brand strength here. It used to be everyone knew a Sony product by name. Trinitron was on almost every TV show that showed a TV. Walkman was a buzzword. PlayStation was the toy to own. Now all Sony has of its former glory is PlayStation. Their other brands, whether selling well or not (and compared to Samsung in the CE space, not), just aren't carrying the power they used to. You aren't likely to be able to say to some random someone, "I have a Vaio, Bravia, Xperia" and be sure they'll know exactly what you're talking about, but if you say iPad they will, and probably Galaxy too. But say "PlayStation" and they'll likely still have that association. That's something Sony want to preserve and build on, and not let go with a care-free wave of their hand saying, "the rest of the business can live without it."

 

[rockaman]

Hmmm, I think you're underestimating the brand awareness, but to each his own.

Xperia market share in UK being 1/6th of Samsung?

Well, with the runaway success of Samsung, especially in principal markets like UK, that's not that terrible.

Look at the worldwide success and Xperia is pretty high up there and gaining traction with their new phone. Great camera and great screen, it's turning heads, CES can attest to that.

P.S.

No one would turn down making the next Nexus phone. Google is the biggest brand in the world right now. That just proves what a giant Sony still is in the electronics business. Google will pay billions for it's production, that's nothing to scoff at or to discount Xperia's brand.

LG made the LGE Nexus 4, and LG sold 15 million LG smartphones* last year. Again, nothing to scoff at.

*of LG's own brand, Optimus

 

[orangpelupa]

Xperia and PlayStation, if both can cross-compatible it will be awesome. Maybe games you buy on Xperia can be played on PlayStation.

also PlayStation game can be played on Xperia (by enabling RemotePlay). Yes the control will be horrible but for some simple game, it maybe good enough

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Xperia market share in UK being 1/6th of Samsung?

Well, with the runaway success of Samsung, especially in principal markets like UK, that's not that terrible.

I think you're missing the point.

Look at the worldwide success and Xperia is pretty high up there and gaining traction with their new phone. Great camera and great screen, it's turning heads, CES can attest to that.

Have you any number on that? I've found Sony at 3rd place next to Apple and Samsung. So that's 10% of the top three share for Sony, vs 61% of that top three for Samsung. And in the whole market, Sony's share is way lower than 10%.

That's not the same brand strength as they used to have.

No one would turn down making the next Nexus phone.

Of course it isn't, but I'm talking brand here. People will be shopping for a Nexus phone, a Google brand, rather than a Sony brand. I repeat, irrespective of Sony's business and products, their brand identity is nothing like as strong as it was or as strong as rivals, which they should be wanting to change. The only brand they have that still has significant power AFAIK is PlayStation, with 50% of its market space (thankfully not too many competitors, counting HD consoles), off the back of 70+% market share before. That's the sort of brand strength Apple and Samsung are commanding these days, not Sony.

 

[-tkf-]

So that's 10% of the top three share for Sony, vs 61% of that top three for Samsung. And in the whole market, Sony's share is way lower than 10%.

That's not the same brand strength as they used to have.

Well i would go so far and say that Sony , without their brand, would be struggling alot more. They made a bad/weird impression to begin with, they introduced topmodels that they didn't support proper with software updates, they looked good but ran poor, and on the other hand the made the X10 Mini that was a success. However even with those big fumbles they are making up ground.

Their current lineup is strong, and i would go so far and say they are the brand i have most faith in will be able to compete with Samsung.

They have the best designs in the Android world, they embraced a more open http://www.linux.com/news/embedded-...ony-mobile-tries-open-path-to-android-success approach, they have the needed experience to produced phones with the screens, cameras etc that compete on a top level. Personal i am done with Samsung for now (currently with a Nexus 4 so tired of bloated samsung crap) but it's very likely that my next Android Phone is a Sony, it depends on how they approach it from here.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

.

And lastly, the yen has finally taken a hit and now Sony and Nintendo and other Japanese exporters can breathe a sigh of relief. If the yen maintains it's low currency exchange rates, it will be an extremely beneficial thing to Japanese exporters who can expect an instant boost to revenues without depending on absolute sales increases.

In all, expect Sony to be much more price competitive and feature competitive under the direction of Hirai and with the Japanese yen at a much more palatable currency exchange rate.

Sony: they ain't dead quite yet

Forgive me if im wrong but Sony is an international company which has most of its products produced in countries far different than Japan? Don't they have production facilities in Taiwan etc?

Hence what the Yen is currently trading at is largely irrelevant for their competitiveness, but only relevant for the reconciliation of P&L and balance sheet.

As such, outside of its shareholders (who obviously receive more yens for each dollar of ps3 sold) its doesn't really matter.

Further most companies would hedge any large currency exposures by foreign denominated debt or derivatives..

In any case, it's true that it benefits Japanese exporters - but only those that produce the majority of their exports in Japan.

 

[rockaman]

I think you're missing the point.

Sorry boss, disagreeing doesn't mean one of us is missing the point

Phones are a new business model for Sony, they just reinvented the entire Ericsson line.

That's not the same brand strength as they used to have.

Base on their phones? Were you expecting instant success? ____ wasn't built overnight. The fact that it remains in the top selling smartphones worldwide is a testament to the resilience of their brand name.

These guys still have $80 billion dollars in annual revenue. I'd say they are still selling some products.

Google is a massive brand. Samsung is a massive company as well. Sony, along with both of this companies, sells millions of items each year.

To say their brand name is diminished? I agree with that.

To imply much further? Not sure I can agree, depending on how far you want to depreciate their value. Brand name isn't a binary 'pass/fail' appraisal. Just because Google products are sought after more doesn't mean much. Google is prime real estate these days.

But that's just my opinion. You have yours, and just because I disagree with it doesn't mean I missed the point

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sorry boss, disagreeing doesn't mean one of us is missing the point

I'm talking about brand. Only strong, in your face, "This is Us!" brand. Sony growing its mobile phone share from 4% to 5% or whatever isn't big branding.

These guys still have $80 billion dollars in annual revenue. I'd say they are still selling some products.

Which has little to do with the strength of their brands (other than the legacy of the Sony name itself).

Google is a massive brand. Samsung is a massive company as well. Sony, along with both of this companies, sells millions of items each year.

Selling millions of items, making billions in revenues or profits, can be pretty independent of brand strength. Plenty of Chinese no-name brands make lots of money and loads of stuff.

But that's just my opinion. You have yours, and just because I disagree with it doesn't mean I missed the point

But your discussing something tangential to me. You're talking Sony's business progress and possibilities. I'm talking just about brand. I'm not saying Sony are doomed, or winning, or losing, or anything about their business other than they no longer have any product brand that is significant other than PlayStation. Do you disagree with that? Do you think Xperia has the same street recognition as iPhone, say? Or Bravia commands the same respect as Trinitron used to?

 

[MrFox]

I don't know about the xperia or bravia brand strength, but the playstation brand is showing some great stability. Tomorrow's PS4 event is all over the internet, it's on fire in every type of news source, twitter, forums, gaming blogs. The only thing they had to do is a youtube video with the playstation name, iconic buttons, and a date, maybe a few banners. (single line banners, to inflame fans and haters, It's very clever)

 

[rockaman]

You seem to think I don't agree that Sony's brand name is diminished.

I do agree with that.

During a restructuring phase and era of a high yen, do you expect them to spend the money totally on advertising for consumer products?

I agree it's diminished, but maybe not in the degree you are suggesting. You are attributing their market share in phones (and hence their sales) to a weakened brand, but you think it's a problem that I attribute their revenue generated from sales as not support that their brand is OK, and I sense a bit of inherent bias.

I would say their advertising presence is much weaker than the degree to which their brand has actually fallen.

The decrease in sales and attention towards Bravia for example was due to the relative consumer cost. Bad deals led to that. The decrease in sales velocity means less people are thinking of buying their TVs. Not because they forgot who Sony was or their TVs were bad, but because they were expensive.

But as you attribute that more to 'brand awareness,' I attribute that to more to the business that Sony was doing, not a glaring fault of a problem with their brand. People will choose first to ignore the image they have of the brand (brand awareness) when the price disparity (bad business) and inconsistencies (product design in the previous Sony-Ericcson venture) becomes to the height which Sony allowed it to.

Believe me when I say we just disagree. I don't agree with the association you are making. That Sony can come to CES with a new phone and garner the attention it did speaks more to the brand value than any of their mistakes with cost control in the past (which speaks more to just the overconfidence Sony had).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You seem to think I don't agree that Sony's brand name is diminished.

No. Well, yes, but I'm making a distinction between the Sony name and their individual products and arms. Sony is still pretty strong, but among their products, only PlayStation is significant as a brand.

The decrease in sales and attention towards Bravia for example was due to the relative consumer cost. Bad deals led to that. The decrease in sales velocity means less people are thinking of buying their TVs. Not because they forgot who Sony was or their TVs were bad, but because they were expensive.

But as you attribute that more to 'brand awareness,'

I didn't say anything at all about how the brand awareness was affecting sales! I never attribute any business success or failure to the brand, either Sony's or different product families.

If I were to give them made-up arbitrary scores to explain myself better, I'd say the Sony name is worth 6/10 where it used to be 9/10. PlayStation is 8/10. Walkman is 1/10 where it used to be 10/10. Bravia is 2/10 where Trinitron was 8/10. For comparison, iPhone is 10/10, Wii is 10/10, Galaxy is maybe 8/10, Android is 10/10.

If we go back through this thread to where I jumped in on this, the talk was about Sony's individual arms not needing PlayStation, which I don't really disagree with, but to which I added that the PlayStation brand is probably the only strong brand Sony still have and they should build on it, which is an area where the failure of Orbis would impact the company, being the death of their last great brand identity.

 

[rockaman]

Well, I can agree more with that. I wouldn't put Bravia and others quite that low, but I agree with the overall idea. They conceded in a lot of areas they shouldn't have (portable music, tablets).

Only... I don't think Wii can be categorized as a 10/10 brand on your scale anymore

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'd definitely place it there. Everyone knows what a Wii is just as they know what an iPhone is. It may be sat in the cupboard getting dust soon to be forgotten, but it still holds consumer mindshare (enough to confuse people into thinking the Wii U is a peripheral )

Edit: Note that brand strength != high sales or market dominance, but it 1) certainly helps, and 2) is hard to avoid if you have market dominance.

 

[wco81]

Cybershots used to be a popular brand.

NEX cameras are reviewed well but may be too pricey to be the volume leader.

 

[patsu]

I like Sony headphones too.

EDIT: Too bad I won't be around tomorrow to watch the live stream. 8^/
I guess I will find out from Gaffers and B3Ders at night.

 

[Bagel seed]

Kotaku says Orbis out in US by Nov, $429 and $529 models

A reliable Kotaku source has informed us that the PlayStation 4, codenamed Orbis, will be out this November in the United States.

Our source—the same reliable source who back in early 2012 told us the codename for Sony's next console and the codename for Microsoft's next console—tells us that there are two models planned for the new machine, and that pricing won't be announced until later this year, possibly around E3. The current plan, our source says, is to release them at $429 and $529, but that could change.

http://kotaku.com/5985356/source-th...d-youll-be-able-to-control-it-with-your-phone

 

[XpiderMX]

Kotaku says Orbis out in US by Nov, $429 and $529 models



http://kotaku.com/5985356/source-th...d-youll-be-able-to-control-it-with-your-phone

Orbis is also following the path first set by Xbox Live: our source says "most" of the PS4's online features will require a premium subscription to use. Sony's new online service will be called PlayStation World, our source says, replacing PlayStation Plus

I hope no...

 

[dobwal]

Sony's brand recognition is still strong. Combining superior engineering with low cost manufacturing has been a problem with Sony because it still has a rather significant manufacturing base in japan.

I had a hand me down floor model trinitron (wood grain and everything) up until I got married in 2006 which worked perfectly except for a broken volume and channel button. My parents bought that TV back in 1981. Great picture and had my PS2 and Xbox hooked up to that bad boy.

Those were the days. I can't imagine any piece of electronic I currently own lasting anywhere near that long with regular use even Sony's wares. The trinitron didn't even die, I gave it away because my wife.

It was a beautiful TV.
http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=1&weiid=3722639&lang=En

 

[Bagel seed]

I hope no...

If premium services doesn't include multiplayer, then I hope so! They need to milk more money out of customers. People will pay if they see value in whatever it is, like Live. PS+ is an excellent deal, but other levels of service would be good too for choice.