News & Rumours: Playstation 4/ Orbis *spin*

[Arwin]

Vita was lacking some very useful marketing technology hype when DS, Wii, 3DS and even PS4 all somehow got some at launch.

3DS still brings something with its hardware no other mobile device does.

So do the twin sticks and the rear touchpad. Most people have the 3D slider all the way down. I am one of the biggest 3D fans there are, and the 3DS has some nice uses for it, but really noone seems to care. However, it has Mario. Mario Kart, Zelda, etc - these things do matter. And Vita hasn't kept up in that regard. But Rayman Legends on the Vita is fantastic, so are Zen Pinball, Guacamelee, and a whole bunch of other titles.

 

[Grall]

3DS still brings something with its hardware no other mobile device does.

Uh, like what, two screens? A stylus?

 

[Nesh]

Uh, like what, two screens? A stylus?

The overal combination of its elements (button input, 3D, touch, accelerometer, double screens) is unmatched by mobile phones and tablets that werent designed with gaming in mind.

 

[Arwin]

The overal combination of its elements (button input, 3D, touch, accelerometer, double screens) is unmatched by mobile phones and tablets that werent designed with gaming in mind.

Why doesn't that same argument hold up for the Vita?

 

[Nesh]

Why doesn't that same argument hold up for the Vita?

Technically speaking yes. But there are a number of reasons that didnt help it succeed as it should and it has nothing to do with the control design

 

[Grall]

Double screens is a quirk of bygone era when two small LCD screens were much cheaper than one larger; now no longer true, as evidenced by the 2DS. There's no particular advantages in having two screens versus one, and arguably a couple disadvantages.

3D is something few, if anyone actually likes, as also evidenced by the 2DS. It increases battery consumption, causes headaches, alledgedly causes eye problems in youngsters, and is generally seen as gimmicky and of little value.

All the rest the Vita has as well (and then some); mobile devices as well if coupled with a hardware controller.

 

[Arwin]

Technically speaking yes. But there are a number of reasons that didnt help it succeed as it should and it has nothing to do with the control design

Yeah, but the screen isn't one of them. Apart from the rise of smartphones that hurts the target demographic perhaps even more than the 3DS but certainly hurts them both, I am certain software is the biggest factor, with the memory card a distant second.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Tbh, it is my firm belief that Vita failed simply because it didn't have the developer mindshare (and particularly Japanese developers).

The PSP only started doing well when it snagged Monster hunter, and Sony were foolish not to pay Capcom to have a Monster Hunter game ready for Vita's launch. They should have fully funded a monster hunter game. There was very little in the way of Japanese development support for Vita at launch, and both western and Japanese devs seem to care more about Japanese developed games than western on handhelds. Nintendo had the benefit of there own megalithic handheld franchises (e.g. Pokemon) with the 3DS, which meant that their platform would be successful regardless of what it looked like or what hw features it had, because as long as it was the only place for gamers to play Pokemon, it would be purchased in droves.

Vita needs Japanese games support. It's the only way it can be resurrected from the brink of death. It's also the major way that dedicated handhelds can differetiate from mobile ios/android platforms. As games like Pokemon, JRPGS, MonHun, Muramasa etc cannot be found on mobile, and are far deeper and more rewarding mobile games that even the hardcore console gamers in the west can appreciate, since these are often considered better suited to mobile platforms.

 

[Arwin]

There is little about Pokemon or JRPGs that wouldn't work on smartphones or tablets, but otherwise I agree

 

[Prophecy2k]

There is little about Pokemon or JRPGs that wouldn't work on smartphones or tablets, but otherwise I agree

I'd argue that physical controls also provide a superior experience with these game. So it's not that these don't work on mobile, just that they do not need to be compromised so severely that it affects the enjoyment of these games. I'd still rather physically control my character's movement in a jrpg than the oft used "tap to move" system used on mobile.

 

[Globalisateur]

Tbh, it is my firm belief that Vita failed simply because it didn't have the developer mindshare (and particularly Japanese developers).

The PSP only started doing well when it snagged Monster hunter, and Sony were foolish not to pay Capcom to have a Monster Hunter game ready for Vita's launch. They should have fully funded a monster hunter game. There was very little in the way of Japanese development support for Vita at launch, and both western and Japanese devs seem to care more about Japanese developed games than western on handhelds. Nintendo had the benefit of there own megalithic handheld franchises (e.g. Pokemon) with the 3DS, which meant that their platform would be successful regardless of what it looked like or what hw features it had, because as long as it was the only place for gamers to play Pokemon, it would be purchased in droves.

Vita needs Japanese games support. It's the only way it can be resurrected from the brink of death. It's also the major way that dedicated handhelds can differetiate from mobile ios/android platforms. As games like Pokemon, JRPGS, MonHun, Muramasa etc cannot be found on mobile, and are far deeper and more rewarding mobile games that even the hardcore console gamers in the west can appreciate, since these are often considered better suited to mobile platforms.

About this I found an IGN interview of Ryozo Tsujimoto, the creator and producer of Monster Hunter:

The series did start out on Sony platforms, but it’s just realistic to think that it can’t continue on one platform forever,” says Tsujimoto. “With Monster Hunter 4, it actually just came down to timing - we were developing a new Monster Hunter and the 3DS hardware had just come out, so we figured it was probably the best platform for us to develop it on. You have two screens, with action on top and menus on the bottom, and there’s the 3D view as well. It just made sense to put it onto 3DS.

It appears the stereoscopic 3D on the 3DS was as much important as the 2 screens in the final decision to develop Monster Hunster 4 on 3DS.

Apparently the hype of the 3D screen was maybe just enough for the creator of Monster Hunter to choose 3DS and it doesn't surprise me at all.

If only Sony did choose the 3D instead of the OLED, they must regret their decison now and have now done a full 180 with the OLED, as now all new Vitas have regular LCD screens.

The power of Vita (with 2 great sticks) with the immersion of a 3D screen in the compelling world of Monster Hunter 4 would have been perfect IMO.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It appears the stereoscopic 3D on the 3DS was as much important as the 2 screens in the final decision to develop Monster Hunster 4 on 3DS.

Did you read your own post? Ryozo Tsujimoto said it was abut timing. The 3DS came out at the start of 2011 and the PS Vita at the end. Out of the things he mentioned - timing, dual screens and 3D - 3D is the last thing he mentions but you've read as this as though it was the important differentiator?

First sentence again.

“With Monster Hunter 4, it actually just came down to timing - we were developing a new Monster Hunter and the 3DS hardware had just come out, so we figured it was probably the best platform for us to develop it on

Timing

 

[Prophecy2k]

About this I found an IGN interview of Ryozo Tsujimoto, the creator and producer of Monster Hunter:



It appears the stereoscopic 3D on the 3DS was as much important as the 2 screens in the final decision to develop Monster Hunster 4 on 3DS.

Apparently the hype of the 3D screen was maybe just enough for the creator of Monster Hunter to choose 3DS and it doesn't surprise me at all.

If only Sony did choose the 3D instead of the OLED, they must regret their decison now and have now done a full 180 with the OLED, as now all new Vitas have regular LCD screens.

The power of Vita (with 2 great sticks) with the immersion of a 3D screen in the compelling world of Monster Hunter 4 would have been perfect IMO.

That's just PR speak for "Nintendo gave us a crap load of money to secure exclusivity". It certainly wasn't anything like "timing" as MH4 isn't the only MonHun game they'll released since the launch of the Vita/3DS and the Vita hasn't had a single MonHun game yet. Equally the 3D comment is rubbish, since neither MonHun 4 nor any other 3DS game has actually made good use of it anyway.

 

[Arwin]

nor any other 3DS game has actually made good use of it anyway.

I agree with the rest, but the above isn't true. There are a bunch of titles that made good use of 3D.

 

[Globalisateur]

Did you read your own post? Ryozo Tsujimoto said it was abut timing. The 3DS came out at the start of 2011 and the PS Vita at the end. Out of the things he mentioned - timing, dual screens and 3D - 3D is the last thing he mentions but you've read as this as though it was the important differentiator?

First sentence again.



Timing

Yes, OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit, but still.

Why does such an important decision maker as monster hunter's creator talks only about these 2 features of the 3DS? He says timing but then the first 2 important 3DS features for him, even with the alleged money exclusivity from Nintendo, is still the dual screen and the stereoscopic 3D.

It must still be kinda important for him if he said it. The guy is not a professionnal PR guy reciting already written speech, he is a passion driven man!

And about the "few games makes good use of the 3D" argument. Even if it was true, it's not about good use for me. It's about immersion. Stereoscopic 3D brings as much immersion than a 5x resolution increase for me. Stereoscopic 3D is litteraly the small, and only Virtual Reality of a handheld gaming device.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Yes, OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit, but still.

Why does such an important decision maker as monster hunter's creator talks only about these 2 features of the 3DS? He says timing but then the first 2 important 3DS features for him, even with the alleged money exclusivity from Nintendo, is still the dual screen and the stereoscopic 3D.

It must still be kinda important for him if he said it. The guy is not a professionnal PR guy reciting already written speech, he is a passion driven man!

And about the "few games makes good use of the 3D" argument. Even if it was true, it's not about good use for me. It's about immersion. Stereoscopic 3D brings as much immersion than a 5x resolution increase for me. Stereoscopic 3D is litteraly the small, and only Virtual Reality of a handheld gaming device.

A bit hyperbolic, but I can appreciate your passion Globalisateur. It's rather endearing ;-)

I would add that few developers that speak publically say anything that has not gone through an army of PR and marketing people. It's unwise to take statements like the above as anything rooted in reality. Exclusivity deals are often never spoken about openly, which is especially dammning when devs make wishy washy statements like this and we all know exactly what went down behind the scenes.

It reminds me of when a Ubisoft dev was asked about why Splinter Cell Conviction was exclusive to the Xbox 360, and he said something dumb like it was because of a "link of heart" with microsoft... LOOOOOOL

If a dev is speaking about his game or development process then by all means listen to him/her, as they'll mostly likely have something of value to say. If they're answering a question about why their game is going to one platform and not another then don't at anytime expect to be told the candid truth.

Ultimately, especially devs like the one in question here, the decision of what platforms to target is not theirs. It's a decision that belongs with the publisher, and thus the reasons for such will be remain at that level.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I agree with the rest, but the above isn't true. There are a bunch of titles that made good use of 3D.

Ok, I admit beig guilty of an exaggeration there. I've not played many 3DS games on my wife's 3DS, so I can only speak for the titles i have played.

If you have any recommendations for titles that use 3D well, I'd certainly be interested in checking them out Arwin

 

[patsu]

Yeah, but the screen isn't one of them. Apart from the rise of smartphones that hurts the target demographic perhaps even more than the 3DS but certainly hurts them both, I am certain software is the biggest factor, with the memory card a distant second.

They may need a stronger mobile platform story to drive the software.

Is their new TV a repackaged Vita ?

The mobile gaming market is moving very quickly. Will be interesting to see Vita games vs Metal games.

 

[London Geezer]

I've been wondering how Sony is dealing with the fact that their Xperia line is selling pretty damn well and at a much higher price than Vita. It seems to me that they're positioning themselves pretty well for all possible outcomes. I'm an iPhone boy but I read that Xperia is a good line of products in the Android world.

Sometimes I think, why bother with a gaming handheld when they can just focus on Xperia and try to get sales resembling Samsung? It's a higher profit business too, unless I'm grossly mistaken.

 

[patsu]

Kaz Hirai said they won't roll out a Vita phone until they can make one without compromises. I take it to mean they are working hard on it.

On the iPhone side, it looks like Apple have made solid strides towards that no-compromise gaming phone direction.

I'd say it's a matter of time for Vita phone.

It's a tricky situation because Apple is very focused. They also pack in an industry leading camera every time a new phone is released, plus perhaps other goodies like fingerprint security, Home and Health stuff for iOS8.

Edit: I still think that the first console company that works seamlessly with iOS will win big. They tried to release PS apps on iOS, but it feels more like PS Orphan for iOS. Might as well not do it.

Look at Google and MS, release quality apps for iOS in parallel to help build your overall platform momentum.