News and Rumours: PS4

[patsu]

I agree. It would be impossible to implement.

What constitutes a used game ? Do you tie the disc-ID to the console or to the account? Either way it will cause an uproar, imagine:

Play a game in your living room and find out you can't play it in your bedroom.
Or play it on one console, then have your kid take it to his room, log on with a different online ID and find that he can't play it.

There are probably a few ways to do it. XBL assigns 1 user key and 1 system key for each protected title. In PSN, a user can activate up to 2 home consoles and 2 portable consoles for gaming.

Presumably the game developers can also implement their own rules. e.g., The GT5 DLC track is tied to a PSN account. However, it can be played by the owner together with other PSN users in the same network session even if they did not buy the track.

Cars in the DLC are also tied to the PSN account. As a result, other PSN accounts on the same PS3 could not use the cars. Polyphony patched the game so that we can transfer the DLC cars to the in-game dealership. Now everyone on that PS3 can purchase cars from the local dealership.

 

[function]

There's some sense to unifying the DRM on DD and physical game copies. Then physical copies just become another conduit for exactly the same experience but with some flexibility to operate offline.

The Xbox system should transfer quite well. Apart from upsetting lots of people at first, that is.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I agree. It would be impossible to implement.

What constitutes a used game ? Do you tie the disc-ID to the console or to the account? Either way it will cause an uproar, imagine:

Play a game in your living room and find out you can't play it in your bedroom.
Or play it on one console, then have your kid take it to his room, log on with a different online ID and find that he can't play it.

The only way to curb the used games market is DD.

Cheers

Well considering the cornerstone to all this is that all games will be tied to a PSN account (or XBox Live account), it would be relatively easy to manage.

Similar to PC gaming, physical retail games can just come with a serial code which is registered on the system and henceforth the game is associated with that user. Steam enabled games have been doing this for over 5 years now so the mechanism is mature and well understood.

The only difference is that if there is going to be a tradeable used games market. That serial code likely won't allow you to access a DD copy of the same game.

Only problem is alienating offline only gamers. Using flash or write-once disks you could even have used games "recharged" by customers or retailers (with a cut to pubs) so both online and offline gamers are accommodated.

But that minority is growing smaller and smaller by the day. The new smartphone craze is getting people used to being online all the time. As I mentioned in one of the threads in the PC forum, it won't be long until almost all people in their 20's won't even know what the world was like before you had always on internet connectivity. At least those in developed nations.

How much you want to bet that there's a fairly likely chance that Playstation next and Xbox next will include a cellular SIM card slot? Or have the option for a cellular modem? Suddenly everyone with a smartphone or cellular wireless data plan has instant access through their console.

Regards,
SB

 

[Arwin]

I am calling it now: Industry collusion. The major pubs basically told MS/Sony make it happen and they bilaterally agreed they would both do it if the other did as well. Sony was reported to have had been investing in tech for this when the PS3 launched and MS has recently been in the news for such.

It is going to happen.

It seems likely. Certainly, it would be silly at this point for console designers not to build a system that is capable of working this way at least. You can always decide if you're going to use it for all titles, or only for certain publishers, regions, etc.

Personally it would be a step forwards for me mostly as it would mean you can buy a game on or offline, and if the disc brakes, or you just want the DD version on your harddrive and not have to put in the disc, that's all facilitated no matter where you buy it. However not being able to install a game once server side / account support is gone remains an issue. I hope journalists will ask serious questions about these ...

Games as a service, means that service can be suspended.

 

[Prophecy2k]

How much you want to bet that there's a fairly likely chance that Playstation next and Xbox next will include a cellular SIM card slot? Or have the option for a cellular modem? Suddenly everyone with a smartphone or cellular wireless data plan has instant access through their console.

Regards,
SB

This is a very interesting suggestion actually. Perhaps a negotiated deal with the cellular networks for a free very low data rate service, constrained to doing authentication of games and other low bandwidth tasks only could be the answer. Think the Amazon Kindle.

That way gamers could benefit from being able to see their trophies/achievments/userdata uploaded/downloaded real-time without a home broadband connection. As well as granting the consoles a means to authenticate discs remotely without the user needing to manually connect the console to a home broadband service.

 

[Rangers]

It seems likely. Certainly, it would be silly at this point for console designers not to build a system that is capable of working this way at least. You can always decide if you're going to use it for all titles, or only for certain publishers, regions, etc.

Personally it would be a step forwards for me mostly as it would mean you can buy a game on or offline, and if the disc brakes, or you just want the DD version on your harddrive and not have to put in the disc, that's all facilitated no matter where you buy it. However not being able to install a game once server side / account support is gone remains an issue. I hope journalists will ask serious questions about these ...

Games as a service, means that service can be suspended.

I do like the convenience of digital downloaded games. Makes changing discs seem archaic. Also nice to be able to decide to buy a game (that no local store may carry, and certainly not the 24 hr Wal Mart) on a whim at 2AM from your living room if you feel like it.

I dislike pretty much everything else. No ability to resell, no physical item to own or let others borrow. I decided years ago rather than feeling pathetic after getting, $7 if lucky for a used game at Gamestop, I would just keep every disc game I bought from then on, and I have. I like growing my collection, even if I never play them again, that's fine.

I also had issues with buying Crysis 1 PC on direct2drive...turns out basically it was the 32 bit version, only, unknown to me. Whereas the disc version contained both 32 and 64 bit (64 bit had some minor performance advantages I forget). It also took me a while to figure out how patches worked on DD. I ended up wishing I had just got the disc.

 

[-tkf-]

Right now i have a N64, PS2, Wii connected to a TV where the kid can play around. Just thinking about the nightmare this kind of stuff will create in the future gives me the creeps.

Should we really expect the same people that only look at earnings to keep on supporting a system like this in the future? Imagine something like starfox, i can actually plug it in, turn on the console and play it today...

Should we really expect these "profit maximizing" companies to keep the services running for so long?
No, but we will be able to play a "demo/trial" version of the games. There is so much more at stake here i almost want to use the word Freedom

 

[patsu]

I'm switching to DD games starting with Vita. It's more convenient and I don't have to worry about damaged or lost media (for portable systems).

Used games don't bother me. I'm looking for shorter (and hence, potentially cheaper) games though. ^_^

These days, I play on my Vita more than PS3. I might just be a predominantly portable gamer next gen.

 

[patsu]

Titanio found 2 new patents from Sony regarding nextgen controller and UI...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20120075463.pdf

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20120075462.pdf


Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36462354&postcount=1381

Basically proposes coupling a thermal camera or cameras to a visible light camera and/or IR camera, for the following benefits, chiefly in biometrics without any need to wear anything:

- Heart rate, skin temperature, respiration (breath) rate, blood pressure monitoring
- Better object detection/disambiguation vs rgb/ir alone
- Identifying the speaker in a room full of people
- User identification using respiration patterns
- Judging in a singing game based on breath

etc.

Now if they turn PS4 into a healthcare station given their new third pillar of business, then things may take a more interesting turn for me. ^_^

 

[Nesh]

I am currently worried about the possibility of not being B/C
What about the games I purchased from PSN even?

 

[patsu]

If they go that route, then they expect you to buy another PS3 for that library... until at some point they add B/C over at the new machine, if at all. The new PS3 should be cheaper and smaller. I wouldn't mind if Orbis can interface with the new PS3 to use its Blu-ray and HDD.

 

[Nesh]

Me no like that solution

 

[BoardBonobo]

I'm personally not fussed about the used games market. Anything that enables devs to get rewarded for all their hard work is to be applauded. Especially if it drives the development cost of games down and, hopefully, the prices too.

Lack of BC is going to be annoying though. I've invested quite heavily into this generation and being able to jump back in at any time is something I'm keen on. If PS4/X720 don't support BC out of the box or via an, optional, add on I will either be giving this gen a miss and stick with the Vita and iOS for my gaming goodness or jump in late into the cycle when the things are cheaper.

 

[-tkf-]

I'm personally not fussed about the used games market. Anything that enables devs to get rewarded for all their hard work is to be applauded. Especially if it drives the development cost of games down and, hopefully, the prices too.

Do you honestly believe that killing used games will see cheaper games?

The biggest issue is really just killing games at some point in time, when games only work when they are "licensed" that license will at some point go away, when the license system isn´t running anymore the game is gone. Other platforms may be much more robust have a longer life expectancy i just don't believe in the current console manufactures to be able to provide that.

 

[upnorthsox]

Do you honestly believe that killing used games will see cheaper games?
The biggest issue is really just killing games at some point in time, when games only work when they are "licensed" that license will at some point go away, when the license system isn´t running anymore the game is gone. Other platforms may be much more robust have a longer life expectancy i just don't believe in the current console manufactures to be able to provide that.

I have my doubts on this too. It may help avoid a price increase though.

 

[Scott_Arm]

If MS and Sony both go this route, having users buying an activation for full use of a used copy, I will have to consider ditching console gaming altogether.

 

[V3]

Out of curiosity why can't PS3 be emulated ? IF Sony went cutting edge for PS4 with CPU like 8-module AMD FX Chips of some sort (16 cores) at 4+ GHz in 2014 and dual GPU solution like the upcoming 7990, why can't PS3 be emulated on that kind of system ?

Can't SPU codes be translated into compute shaders of some sort ?

 

[V3]

If MS and Sony both go this route, having users buying an activation for full use of a used copy, I will have to consider ditching console gaming altogether.

It'll probably cost you the same, MS, Sony and publishers just want a cut from used games. So EB, Games, etc would need to price used copy at lower price to attract customers.

They can't price used copy+activation cost higher than new games. Used-games gamers being the cheap-ass as they are would work things out and LOL at EB and the rest. I think retail gameshop will go out of business without second hand. So I;m sure they'll just price things lower to compensate.

Game prices will be higher anyway next gen.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Out of curiosity why can't PS3 be emulated ? IF Sony went cutting edge for PS4 with CPU like 8-module AMD FX Chips of some sort (16 cores) at 4+ GHz in 2014 and dual GPU solution like the upcoming 7990, why can't PS3 be emulated on that kind of system ?

Can't SPU codes be translated into compute shaders of some sort ?

You need to scale back you expectations by a lot. There is 0 % chance of something like that to actually being in the box. Magic doesn't exist.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If MS and Sony both go this route, having users buying an activation for full use of a used copy, I will have to consider ditching console gaming altogether.

But that's happening with the publishers anyway, via activation codes. MS and Sony supporting it in the systems is only helping the publishers out with what they want. If MS and Sony don't do anything, used games are still going to get increasingly gimped. And if you give up console gaming, the PCs only going to offer draconian DRM!

It's just the way things will go. Selling a game, you'll get much less than you bought it new for, and buying a used game, you'll need to add $10-15 activation price on the asking price. C'est la vie.