News and Rumours: PS4

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by dobwal, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. dobwal

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  2. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    It was posted in the prediction thread, but the source was different. Might be worth having its own thread if people want to discuss the interface implications.

    I personally would love to hear how many people are going to skip the ps4 if it lacks BC. ;)
     
  3. patsu

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    Is the dude describing an early devkit or the final production system ? ^_^

    "No used game" sounds dangerous unless they are considering other changes like pricing.

    If they build the thing from scratch, they can presumably add B/C via addition hardware (i.e., if the consumer pays more).
     
  4. tongue_of_colicab

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    None.
     
  5. wco81

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    Exactly. The publishers will be surprised how many $60 sales they lose if they implement this kind of plan.

    Has the various Online Pass schemes affected used games sales? Or have they sold a lot of these online passes as a result of people buying used games?

    All I see these days are that new games are discounted more quickly, even at launch with things like gift cards towards future purchases. Of course a lot of that has to do with being at the tail end of a generation and games prices not holding up as long. This happened with the previous generations too.

    I wonder if someone will sue on the basis that this scheme would circumvent the First Sale doctrine.

    But the other thing is, if one console has this kind of scheme and the others don't, there could be a competitive advantage, assuming equal 3rd-party publisher support.

    I have to go back again to mobile devices offering an alternative, both for gaming as well as other entertainment. The way they're selling and sucking up a lot of digital entertainment spending dollars, it's amazing that the console gaming industry would risk antagonizing their customers with a scheme like this.
     
  6. patsu

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    I re-read Kotaku's article. The mechanism is not anti-used game.

    The system still allows the users to trade games. However Sony and partners now have an enforced mechanism to take a cut from used game transactions. This means that GameStop will have to adjust/reduce their used game price to appease the consumers.

    If the system is fully automated, this also means that Sony and partners will effectively take a cut from eBay (or other resellers') used game trades.
     
  7. Jedi2016

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    I still can't figure out how they plan to identify that a retail game has been used, short of serializing every disc. Unless these are writable discs, and the system will actually write data back to the disc.

    In which case I give it about a day before you can download a program on your PC that will blank that space out again.
     
  8. androvsky

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    I believe blu-rays are currently serialized thanks to managed copy; no hardware maker supports it but all blu-ray movie discs produced after 2009 (iirc) have to. And if they did writable discs, it'd be in an area normal drives can't read or write, and/or it'd be a material that could only be written to once (I believe Sony patented something like that prior to the PS3's launch).

    But if they're doing it like Steam where retail discs are tied to an online account, they're more likely to be serialized.
     
  9. patsu

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    Yeah... a 2006 Blu-ray related patent. Can't seem to google it.
     
  10. joker454

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    Found this in an article:

    "A disc ready for managed copy will essentially include a link on it directing the Blu-ray player to an authentication server. Once a user chooses the option to make a copy, the Blu-ray player connects online to an authorization server. Discs are serialized, and the authentication server will determine if a copy is allowed. "

    So looks like individual discs are identifiable.
     
  11. wco81

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    Managed what? They never allowed you to do a full rip, have they?

    It's only because the DRM was compromised that people are able to rip Blu-Rays.

    The other part of this rumor was support for 4k displays? If they do come out with that, they can't use the existing Blu-Ray disc, can they? Maybe they will have solid state media of some kind or a super Blu-Ray which allows these kinds of protections.


    Is GameStop selling the used games with Online Passes any cheaper?
     
  12. patsu

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    I don't think the studios have offered any Blu-ray Managed Copies. They implemented proprietary digital copy mechanisms (like the one used in AppleTV), and so-called standard UltraViolet copies.

    I think 4K is just a computing budget. It can mean a 4K display, or it can mean 4 x 1080p screens.

    4K movies are used in digital cinema. Sony claimed that they can do it with a multi-layer BD disc.

    GameStop execs mentioned that they will adjust the price if demand drops. I don't think Online Pass is prevalent enough yet.
     
  13. androvsky

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    It was mentioned a podcast with someone who authors blu-rays for a small studio complaining about how they all have to have the XML file that points to a server that may or may not exist, and there's no way to test it. I also remember reading a bunch of news stories about it too, back in the day. It's just that it's impossible to buy a piece of hardware that is licensed to do the actual managed copy (which is really strange, since it was the hardware makers pushing for it...).

    Apparently it was originally late 2009, got pushed back to March 2010. I can do more digging later...
    http://www.netblender.com/main/resources/wikipapers/understanding-blu-ray-managed-copy-requirements/
     
  14. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
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    I am calling it now: Industry collusion. The major pubs basically told MS/Sony make it happen and they bilaterally agreed they would both do it if the other did as well. Sony was reported to have had been investing in tech for this when the PS3 launched and MS has recently been in the news for such.

    It is going to happen. :evil:
     
  15. wco81

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    So in the face of 99 cent or ad supported games, they're going to offer only new games or used games that they have to pay for twice. Which in either case costs up to 60 times as much.

    Hmm, they overestimate the draw of "core" games.
     
  16. -tkf-

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    Sounds like a completely and utterly stupid idea, the amount of bitching and whining that something like this will course is going to reach new levels. Buy a used game, take it home.. find out it doesn't work..

    And i can see consumer protections groups getting ready to sue everyone to hell and back for doing something this shitty. And while i am using the stupid word, the article itself has a good reason for this being bullshit.

    Lets take away customers from our platforms because we are stupid.

    I really hope greed will crush them all.
     
  17. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    There are certianly ways to introduce write-once systems that can't be (ordinarily) be reversed.
     
  18. Prophecy2k

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    Whilst i think you're grossly overestimating the reaction to a system like this (especially if both MS and Sony implement it - which is very very likely), I do agree that the fact that the proposed system requires the console to connected to the internet is clear proof that this rumour is bogus... or at least a misunderstood/mistranslated description of an actual system that might be present in next gen consoles.

    I think the main point with pre-owned games is that games bought new will still have re-sale value with a system like the one decribed. This is as far as I understand the main concern with gamers that take advantage of the used games industry. Buying used games has never been the issue, as even now, months after a games release gamers can either buy a game deeply discounted new or for a little less pre-owned. From the gamers perspective they will always have the choice to buy the game new for cheap or pre-owned for cheap but with an added fee to unlock it. Obviously, it benefits the platform holders and publishers as it makes older games bought new more attractive than the pre-owned versions, but for someone like me who's never needed to buy a pre-owned game this gen, as games prices sink so fast these days i'll just carry on buying new at deep discount and supporting the industry by it.

    I think the big thing to bear in mind is that game have always followed a pricing curve. With or without the used games industry, publishers desire to maximise the investment in their products. They understand that they cannot justify trying to flog a game at full price months after its release when gamers will be all eyes on those hyped up new releases. Therefore older games will always be discounted. There's no reason to fear that this will change. A system like this will only attempt to shift the distribution of dollars from the pre-owned industry out of retailers pockets and into the game's creators. It's fair and probably the most painless system we've heard described so far. Gamers can still sell their old games, using them to offset the cost of new games. This won't change. Those price-conscious conmsumers that buy pre-owned games exclusively however (thus not contributing dollars to the industry at all), will now have more reason to pick up titles new for a similar price. The only thing to change will be the buying habits of this consumer as they will either have to fork out a little more for the newer games new, buy pre-owned and pay the fee, or wait a little while as the game they want comes down its price curve and pick it up later for cheap. This consumer will have to be a little more patient, but it's a patience that would benefit the entire console industry overall.

    The only problem I can see with this system is that it may hurt new games re-sale value, and more importantly it will mean that gamers who play exclusively off-line will be limited to buying new everytime (doesn't have to be at launch though, so won't always be $60).
     
  19. Gubbi

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    I agree. It would be impossible to implement.

    What constitutes a used game ? Do you tie the disc-ID to the console or to the account? Either way it will cause an uproar, imagine:

    Play a game in your living room and find out you can't play it in your bedroom.
    Or play it on one console, then have your kid take it to his room, log on with a different online ID and find that he can't play it.

    The only way to curb the used games market is DD.

    Cheers
     
  20. function

    function Wrong thread
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    This is exactly what some of us have been talking about in the Alternative Distribution thread.

    Only problem is alienating offline only gamers. Using flash or write-once disks you could even have used games "recharged" by customers or retailers (with a cut to pubs) so both online and offline gamers are accommodated.

    On Xbox I believe a DD game is tied to the console it's downloaded on and the account you buy it with. Multiple people in the same house can play it and you can take the game round a friend's house so long as you log onto Live. So much better than a scabby-as-fuck one-user-only system. No reason you can't do the same thing through a physically distributed game.
     

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