New spy footage of 2009 Nissan Skyline GT-R at track

_xxx_ said:
Idealized = contact area is just a "perfectly" thin line and there are no deformations.

Also, wider tires will reduce the stress per unit area of each tire - that's why you can corner easier with wider tyres when driving high-speed, less because of higher friction. Narrower tyres would be too stressed and blow.
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All very true. The application of softer compounds b/c of reduced load as well. But that is beside the point.

Even if you had two examples of the same car, with same compund tyres, but one had tyres twice as wide, it would have more traction. Or if you had the same two cars again and made one half as heavy, it would corner faster. The point is, lower contact patch pressure means a _higher_ friction coefficient, regardless of compund.

Coulomb's law(F=uN) as taught in high school is not an actual physical law, it's an empirical approximation. A rule of thumb, if you will. It doesn't apply for everything in all circumstances, especially tyres in this case. And then we haven't even begun to model stuff like adhesion, dynamic friction, slip rates et.c...

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/images/features/asymmetricalracecars1.pdf
 
Ford? You mean, that company that is so broken that they're going to double their more than 10 billion loss for lay-off payments? They're even worse than GM!

;)
 
Is there a site with the supposed specs of the Focus Cosworth?

It really doesn't have chance in hell against the Skyline (which is going to have about 400bhp), and I doubt it will handle as well as a Subaru Impreza STi or Evo and I guess it will cost twice as much (if the Escort Cosworth is anything to go by)
 
dantruon said:
The Mitsubishi Evo 8 MR will munch any on road car in term of performance and handling any days.
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Including a BMW M3? Or that new 4.2 Liter Audi A4 RS that Jeremy Clarkson thought might actually be even better than the M3?
 
I drove two Mitsubishi Evo's the other day from a couple of dealers. The First was a 260 which made this loud "blare" sound but did not really go that fast, then a FQ340 which also made this horrible blare sound when the gas was applied but went more quickly. Both cars inside looked like something you would get at midnight to bring you back from the pub. Maybe my expectations were too high after all the years of reading about how good they were.

Funnily enough my mate took me to see them in a Range Rover Sport V8 supercharged with 390bhp. I do not like big 4x4's but this had a nice sound, was fairly fast and a lot of fun to hussle down country lanes. If an Evo was behind it would not be able to pass even though it is built to do that sort of thing. The Range Rover is just fast enough and more importantly WIIIIIIDE enough :D And of course the interior was miles better.

So the Evo is not better on the road as a whole and on the track it gets wamped by the Caterhams and Radicals of this world. It is a Jack of all trades and a master of none, its cheap and tacky and makes a horrible blare sound. It wil impress the Halfords crowd though. Have I been disparaging enough about it yet ?
 
almighty said:
Skyline, meh..... New Ford Forcus RS Cosworth due 2008

Gonna kill off the jap crap :p
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I must say, from all the hot hatches, I really dig the Focus RS. What an awful pitty is fwd though - even though the diff does make quite a difference to its handling, I still feel it being fwd will always limit its performance...



dantruon said:
The Mitsubishi Evo 8 MR will munch any on road car in term of performance and handling any days.
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Hum... no. Not really. ;) A friend of mine has what's pretty much an Evo 8 MR (tuned by CDT) and delivers around 360bhp and it doesn't come close in the handling department. There's little to no feedback, it's heavy and it's huge. The only thing that makes it go fast and impresses is the mighty turbo that makes it feel exceptionally quick - an effect that is common on just about all cars with turbos in direct comparisons with NA cars. It's not as quick on the straights either. In fact, even an Evo 8 with 400bhp doesn't compare favourably in a straight line, at least up to 200kmh. And no matter how much tuning potential the engine has left after even 400bhp, that all won't make it any lighter, smaller and magically give more feedback - in other words, it will do absolutely nothing to improve the handling. Perhaps once you start ripping out seats, hifi equipment, backseats and other stuff not needed for on the track, you'll start to see an improvement, but then one has to ask, are we still comparing an Evo or just a hugely modified car?


Arwin said:
Including a BMW M3? Or that new 4.2 Liter Audi A4 RS that Jeremy Clarkson thought might actually be even better than the M3?
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I'll second the BMW M3 bit and extend that to the M3 CSL. The CSL version despite only being a bit ligher and packing a bit more punch is hugely competitive on track and has even been meassured quicker on the Nurbourgring-Nordschleife than a Ferrari 360 CS so far! The Audi though would be less quick than an Evo handling wise.. it's heavy, little driving feedback, engine is too far at the front (at least compared to other cars in the same segment). The only thing that the 'RS4' has on its side is that it's exceptionally quick on the straight.
 
Phil said:
I'll second the BMW M3 bit and extend that to the M3 CSL. The CSL version despite only being a bit ligher and packing a bit more punch is hugely competitive on track and has even been meassured quicker on the Nurbourgring-Nordschleife than a Ferrari 360 CS so far! The Audi though would be less quick than an Evo handling wise.. it's heavy, little driving feedback, engine is too far at the front (at least compared to other cars in the same segment). The only thing that the 'RS4' has on its side is that it's exceptionally quick on the straight.
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man, if a 1992 $10000 mod up Honda CRX can munch a stock M3 on the straight race, what makes you think the Evo 8 MR cant?

dont ask me for sources since i saw it on a DVD which specialise in tuning Japanese Imports cars.
 
10 points for the candidate for missing the point entirely! :???:

*hint* I wasn't talking about straightline drag races. When I talk about "handling" (which if you look back in this topic is what was talked about), I actually mean handling. You know, the thing that is important when you race on a track that actually has more than just a straight line and has something we call corners overhere... ;)

If you were talking about straight-line performance, you should have mentioned that in your post. Besides, comparing modded cars against stock road cars as you were doing isn't exactly a fair comparison and kind of misses the point in more than a few ways.
 
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I'm not so sure dizietsma, haven't come across a CSL yet, but I've read quite a bit from people who've raced against CSLs on the track and say that it's in the same leaque with their own - that being GT3's and even some that have an RS (depending on the track I'm sure).

If you look at the Nordschleife times, the CSL did a 7:50 lap - a 360 CS was measured a 7:56 and a 996 GT3 RS 7:47. Sure, that wouldn't account for traffic, driving error, surface conditions, weather, temperatures so to take with a grain of salt - but it's still an impressive achievement and not to be looked down at. And a GT3-RS has track focused tires as well (not to mention that Evo's and STi's are as well now days).
 
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