Need some help on an internet debate (regarding Japanese whaling)

[Blackraven]

Well, right now, I (and some other guy) are getting into a debate regarding the Japanese whaling ships hunting down whales in huge numbers (I'm sure many of you are aware of this).

You can find the issue that we are debating about here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=343920&page=5

I've been doing a bit of some researching myself yet even with this, it appears that I have no chance against the opposition (represented by only 1 guy there named 'Tri Ring' who supports the Japanese whale hunting program of JARPA).

The problem is, my stand is that I do not have a problem with whaling as a whole. Rather, the problem I see is that there are certain species (3 out of 5) of whale that Japanese whaling ships hunt that are considered as 'endangered' by the ICUN.

That is what I'm debating on: The hunting of those whale species by Japanese whaling ships which are considered as ENDANGERED. Never mind the 'Minke Whales' (as they are only 'status NT' but not endangered yet), it's only the ENDANGERED that I'm concerned about.

Since you guys here in the forum are more exposed to debating, presenting arguments using facts, logic, etc., I was wondering if you guys can give me any suggestions as to how I can greatly improve my arguments. Also, if you guys have any experience in regards to whales (esp. for the biologists out there), then please do share as much info as you like.

NOTE: Again, I'm not here to represent the tree-huggers or the eco-nuts at Greenpeace, Sierra Club, Friend of Earth or whatever. I'm only here to present and defend my side regarding whale species that are ONLY endangered (I don't care much about the non-endangered ones).

So yes, do share any info, tips, suggestions that you would like to offer regarding the matter.

Again, thank you very much for your time.

 

[Davros]

wouldnt there be some stats on the icun webpage ?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Whaling is wrong, especially the endangerd ones for very obvious reasons. Even more because they arnt even used to study but only for luxery items which makes it even worse.

I think it will be hard to get them to agree with you if they dont get the endangerd part. They probably just preffer not having any whales...

 

[_xxx_]

 

[Arwin]

1. the endangered whales are being hunted because they are a valuable resource
2. the whales are endangered because they are a limited resource
3. these whales are however a renewable source if managed correctly
4. a renewable source means you can process a whole lot more whale meat over the long term then when you risk extinction now

That's the most important argument against hunting endangered species for me. It seems a rather obvious one too. As an individual, you can of course still gain from this if you look at the short term and make use of the rarity of an item (which is what is killing tigers, for instance), but as a community you are much better off managing your resources for the long-term.

Also, there's the small argument that the natural world still continues to provide us with new insights, among which the importance of individual species for certain biotopes (their part in the circle of life, as it were), and that almost any species contains valuable information on evolution, and can have specific properties that can turn out to be invaluable in medicine, technology or other forms or research.

 

[Frank]

I think the main argument should be, that it is forbidden world wide, but that Japan claims to catch them for scientific research. Which is bollucks, because they simply eat them.

So, they're lying.

 

[pcchen]

If they really want to do "scientific" research, then maybe there should be some kind of international watch group which are allowed to trace the whales they got. Since they honestly want to do scientific research (if they are not lying) they shouldn't object to this idea. Otherwise, it's just sugarcoating and should be banned.

 

[Frank]

If they really want to do "scientific" research, then maybe there should be some kind of international watch group which are allowed to trace the whales they got. Since they honestly want to do scientific research (if they are not lying) they shouldn't object to this idea. Otherwise, it's just sugarcoating and should be banned.

It gets banned often, but they go on anyway. And as long as other countries want Japanese products more than they want them to stop that, it will continue.

 

[Mize]

But whaling is for "research"!
Actually, history will mark Japan's return to whaling as one of the most politically savvy accomplishments ever. There's simply no good reason to hunt whales other than hokey mysticism...let's go hunt tigers too.

 

[Frank]

Yes, and rhinos, sharks etc. as well. All very popular in Japan, the country with the most recorded potency problems. Viagra is very popular as well.

 

[pcchen]

My point is, they are using "scientific research" as a loophole in the whaling ban. So there should be an international watchdog group which monitors all so-called "scientific" whaling, and track the whales they got. They shouldn't be allowed to sell whale meats from "scientific whaling." This is probably the only way to prevent Japanese from using this loophole.

However, whaling is not just a Japanese problem. There are many other people around the world who are still whaling for "traditional" reasons. Some Japanese even argue that since other countries allow whaling practice they should be allowed too. They are trying to make this into a national pride problem, by claiming that it's a discrimination against Japan if other are allowed to hunt whales but Japan are not.

 

[Frank]

Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling

The "scientific research" argument is the default one.

However, there are only two countries left that do large-scale whaling: Norway and Japan. Everything else is due to local people who catch one or two a year or so, because that's what they always did. And of the two big ones, Norway stepped out of the commitees, rejected them and fights them in court. While not nice, that is their good right.

But Japan signed the deals, promised everyone they won't do it anymore, except for scientific research, and still do it big time. And it's not as if they even care to make it look they're doing any scientific research or whatever. They just say so, smile, and go on catching and eating them. It's quite easy to prove that's what they do.

Edit: I don't think many people would see the "traditional" whaling as a problem, as it's only few animals each year, and there is generally not much else for those people to eat, or sell for other food.

 

[pcchen]

Edit: I don't think many people would see the "traditional" whaling as a problem, as it's only few animals each year, and there is generally not much else for those people to eat, or sell for other food.

Yes, this is not a major problem for the whale conservation, but it's a political problem. Some Japanese are using this for their argument as "other countries allow their natives for traditional whaling, why shouldn't we be allowed too?" Of course, there is a very big difference between small scale whaling and commercial whaling, but the line is somewhat difficult to draw when it's becoming a political argument.

I doubt that the majority of Japanese people actually care about whaling. Most people don't eat whale meat, and they don't really think it's necessary to hunt whales. So this is basically a political problem.

 

[Sxotty]

Edit: I don't think many people would see the "traditional" whaling as a problem, as it's only few animals each year, and there is generally not much else for those people to eat, or sell for other food.

I do. It is completely hypocritical.

Let me pose a new suggestion. The traditional whalers can still hunt if they use their traditional tools. No rifles, no modern technology, no engines, no steel. Then I won't have a problem with it, but that isn't how they do it and it isn't traditional any longer.

 

[zed]

on average ~500 whales strand + die on nz beaches each year.
2 weeks ago 10 died about 100km from where i live.
once they die they just get buried under the sand, im sure noone would have any qualms about the japs/vikings or even me eating them

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

If you really want to you can go to OCAU and read a lot of racist diatribe over the issue.

 

[Sxotty]

on average ~500 whales strand + die on nz beaches each year.
2 weeks ago 10 died about 100km from where i live.
once they die they just get buried under the sand, im sure noone would have any qualms about the japs/vikings or even me eating them

Do you have a point?