MS to combine CPU and GPU at 65nm?

[AlNom]

Any PC part would have the added benefit of binning... something that's not an option for a console...

 

[PS3MAN]

Both RSX and XENOS GPU may take a longtime to combine with its CPUs. Cause higher different clock rate than previous generation console. Another way to solve these GPUs
problem are they must use advance manufacture process for them.

RSX,XENOS 90nm->65nm->45nm->32nm->22nm ...

I prefer this way better than combine them with both system CPUs.

 

[AzBat]

News on Valhalla & Jasper...

Xbitlabs has new details on Valhalla & Jasper...

Microsoft Corp. reportedly plans to release a new version its Xbox 360 video game system code-named Jasper in August and has already assigned IBM and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. to make chips for the new game console. However, there are other important rumours: TSMC got orders to produce the chip for code-named Valhalla Xbox 360 design, which is rumoured to combine microprocessor and graphics chip in a single piece of silicon.


The code-named Jasper design of the Xbox 360 game console will use ATI Xenos graphics and memory controller hub (GMCH) made using 65nm process at TSMC as well as IBM Xenon central processing unit (CPU) produced at IBM’s 65nm nodes. The new system design is projected to consume less electricity, use less complex cooling systems and also produce less noise.

By contrast, current Xbox 360 design named Falcon utilizes GMCH and eDRAM cores manufactured using 90nm process technology at TSMC as well as CPU built at IBM using 65nm fabrication process. The first-generation Xbox 360 used 90nm chips.

TSMC is chosen to make the 65nm GMCH chips, Advanced Semiconductor Engineering (ASE) is contracted to package and test the chips, and Nanya has won orders to supply flip-chip packaging substrates, reports China Economic News Service.

What is, perhaps, more important than the facts that TSMC again got orders to produce ATI Xenos GMCH and IBM land orders on IBM Xenon CPU at expense of Chartered Semiconductor (which once promised to start making 45nm chips for Advanced Micro Devices in 2009), is that “chips” for next-generation Xbox 360 code-named Valhalla will also be made at TSMC. Earlier rumours transpired that Valhalla features a chip that combines CPU and GMCH. In order to build such chip at TSMC, Microsoft either needs to disclose certain design rules of IBM’s fabrication process to the Taiwan-based semiconductor manufacturer, or completely rework the CPU according to fabrication process of TSMC.

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

CPU+GPU on one die and eDRAM on a separate die, all on one package? Even that seems implausible given it's only a 65nm part shrink - one node shrink and already they're wanting to combine it all? They haven't even combined GPU+eDRAM yet AFAIK.

 

[AzBat]

CPU+GPU on one die and eDRAM on a separate die, all on one package? Even that seems implausible given it's only a 65nm part shrink - one node shrink and already they're wanting to combine it all? They haven't even combined GPU+eDRAM yet AFAIK.

It's possible that they had plans for that originally, but the RROD issues stole their attention instead. Now supposedly with those issues behind them, they might have just jumped right to a complete package after the 65nm Jasper. Now it doesn't say if that complete package would be 65nm or 45nm. They do seem to hint at the 45nm possibility though.

Tommy McClain

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Valhalla you say? cough Loki, anyone? Definitely an ATi-themed codename there.

I suspect Jasper = straight 65nm shrink with no new integration and Valhalla would bring about the integration of the edram onto the main die of Xenos.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Now it doesn't say if that complete package would be 65nm or 45nm.

It doesn't? I thought this was saying it'd be 65nm dies.

The code-named Jasper design of the Xbox 360 game console will use ATI Xenos graphics and memory controller hub (GMCH) made using 65nm process at TSMC as well as IBM Xenon central processing unit (CPU) produced at IBM’s 65nm nodes.

 

[AzBat]

Yes, Jasper is at 65nm. I was talking about the complete Valhalla package.

However, there are other important rumours: TSMC got orders to produce the chip for code-named Valhalla Xbox 360 design, which is rumoured to combine microprocessor and graphics chip in a single piece of silicon.

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hmmm, who's the chump who wasn't reading properly!

 

[AzBat]

Hmmm, who's the chump who wasn't reading properly!

Chump? Wow, self deprecation? No need to be so hard on yourself. You're not that funny. ROFL j/k

Tommy McClain

 

[silhouette]

CPU+GPU+EDRAM, all on a single package makes more sense at 65nm. Even that will simplfy board design significantly, probably saves some cost.

 

[assen]

CPU+GPU+EDRAM, all on a single package makes more sense at 65nm. Even that will simplfy board design significantly, probably saves some cost.

Wouldn't it be too big? How many transistors are in that configuration?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Wouldn't it be too big? How many transistors are in that configuration?

I believe its under 500million total. 165m xenon, 232m xenos, 100m daughter. Not 100% on those numbers, but thats what I recall.

 

[aaronspink]

Wouldn't it be too big? How many transistors are in that configuration?

# of transistors don't really matter, its all about die size. Likely if the whole shebang will fit, they chose to do it in two parts as it allows faster time to market with lower cost parts. Do a quick respin of the two most costly parts to 65 nM and then do a subsequent combination of all three parts to the same die, likely on the 55 nM process with a parallel spin on the 40 nM process.

 

[LunchBox]

65 nm GPUs for Xbox 360 now in production, Xbox ‘540’ coming in 2009

Taken directly from TGdaily

The Taiwan Economic News is reporting that first wafers with 65 nm GPUs are leaving the production lines, joining the 65 nm Xenon CPU.

A more dramatic and perhaps visible change will happen next year: TSMC plans to begin producing the Valhalla chip, which will be the foundation of the mid-cycle refresh of the Xbox 360, thus called ‘Xbox 2.5’ or simply ‘Xbox 540’ (360+180), in fall of 2009. We learned that this new chip is apparently much more than a die-shrink and end up as a system-on-a-chip design. This change is likely to enable to redesign the Xbox 360 casing and go towards a slim-design, much like what Sony did with the Gen1 and Gen2 PS2. We believe that TSMC will use a 45 nm process for this Multi-Chip-Module package (CPU+GPU+eDRAM).

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37376/135/

 

[AlNom]

merged threads.

 

[Megadrive1988]

what I predict for Xbox roadmap, which seems reasonable

1.) Jasper - 65nm GPU - Q3 2008

2.) combined GPU+EDRAM on 65nm, seperate CPU - 2009

3.) combined CPU+GPU+EDRAM on 45nm in slim/smaller 360 - in 2010 (not 2009). Will be offered as a budget console before and after the successor to 360 arrives, and should last until 2012/2013, thus giving the 360 a 7-8 year life.

4.) next-generation Xbox on 32nm. Seperate CPU and GPU.
(otherwise too much compromise in both the CPU portion and GPU portion) - 2011.

I don't think tgdaily.com understands these things take time.

 

[liolio]

Any updates about the availability of the jasper revision?

I know that there are members (more on the pc forums) that seems to have contact in south Asia factories, could they have informations on that front?

 

[RudeCurve]

Sweet an Xbox360 slim next year!

 

[AzBat]

Sweet an Xbox360 slim next year!

Don't count on it.

Tommy McClain