MS releases Xbox One S All Digital edition (No Optical Drive)

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by mrcorbo, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    I still doubt it's possible yet to make a portable xb1/ps4, but considering the expected price correction of flash soon (memory manufacturers caught with their pants down again), 64GB carts would enter the area of reasonable price in 2019 or 2020 for a portable device. Assuming Macronix can follow the trend with their own tech.

    An exchange program would make sense and the portable version of games would simply be last gen compatible but a very easy cross-gen to make. It would extend the xb1/ps4 generation massively.

    https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333738
     
  2. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    mm... The memory bandwidth side of things probably axes out any notion of a seemlessly compatible portable, nevermind having to deal with the UI on a small screen, assuming no dependence upon developers to patch things.

    Then again, I suppose Sony could do one of those VR backpack solutions. :p
     
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  3. eastmen

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    it might not , mostly because while it will put them ahead of the other two it won't be by much and a combined tmobile / sprint will still be smaller than the other two. Will be interesting.

    Sprint actually has 2.5ghz , 1900mhz block and 800mhz smr.
     
  4. Jay

    Jay
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    I understand the view that it's simply a way to get it out cheaper to attract the budget market.
    But isn't the disc drive one of the most important things for that customer?
    Buy used game, trade in used game, repeat.

    Digital prices is still more, and you can't trade games etc.
    Is game pass enough to ofset that when it doesn't have the new big multi plat games?

    Maybe as secondary console for ps owner to play ms exclusives? how big is that market considering what they think of ms exclusives at the moment.

    Still think it's a good idea though, just beyond simply the budget consumer
     
  5. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    I can understand that, but I think it makes more sense now that they have Game Pass. No need to have discs or going to a store buy or trade games. That's the customer they're targetting. It's almost the Roku of gaming. Once they go game streaming it truly will be.

    Tommy McClain
     
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  6. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    And it should enable Xbox All Access to come in under $20/month.
     
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  7. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    forgot about this service.
     
  8. eastmen

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    Right now the biggest game in the world is a free digital download. Couple that with game pass and ea access would allow you if done smartly to play at a very low cost per year. MS had game pass at $70 usd for a year black Friday weekend , that's just $6 a month
     
  9. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    As are Netflix, PSNow, Amazon Prime, Spotify, NowTV, and YouTube Premium etc.

    Have it all for the low price of $9000 a month!
     
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  10. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    If that true I hope MSFT cans it.
    Not going to make friends but MSFT has done enough shit with the xbox brand this gen. As I expected the oneX is not the product the public expected. Actually I think it killed the XB1S chances to improve their market shares. Not that I think that the One S was the right product for them.
    I stated that many times they should have moved away from the Durango arch and make it cheap to produce. My gut feeling was right wrt the oneX too,

    Now it is not a complete disaster, they are making money out of a relatively restricted user bases in the US that spends big. They also made a great thing with backward compatibility. But they should call it quit for that gen, no product variation is going to help them in any sensible way even in the US. That is just executive playing with powerpoint and xls sheet with too much money in their hands...
     
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  11. Jay

    Jay
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    All that can be done with 1S and still trade games.
    All comes down to if the initial $50 saving is enough to convince the consumer.
    Lot more flexibility and saving with the 1S even in the short term.
    What about games MS markets, but aren't on game pass.
    Want to play cod, b5, game everyone is talking about rdr2 buy second hand and trade it in afterwards, how much would that cost digitally?

    I think when it's reviewed, conclusion will be if your looking to save money go with the 1S sell bundled games to ofset difference, for everyone else nice option.
     
  12. Jay

    Jay
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    In what way do you think 1X isn't what people expected?

    1S wasn't going to improve much, it's in a really tough spot in comparison to base ps4.

    1X has improved the Xbox brand much more than killing the sales of the 1S.

    Everything else you wrote seems like valid point of view just didn't get this bit
     
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  13. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    This raises an interesting point : which is better, a 7nm XBoxOne, or a tiny, cheap XBoxTwo?

    A 7nm XBoxOne is forever bound to the shortcomings of the original XBoxOne hardware.

    A cheap XBoxTwo consisting of 8GB GDDR6, an 8 core Zen2 clocked at 2Ghz, and a 20CU Navi would run circles around the XBoxOne, set a decent baseline for the generation (even if it becomes their 720p machine) and probably be cheaper to manufacture, in the long run, than a 7nm XBoxOne.
     
  14. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Depends on where this device is intended to compete. In the standard console space, not a good place to be. To attack the Roku/Apple TV/ChromeTV space, very good if they can get in range of those devices in both size and price.

    Offering effectively the same features but with actual console games with a full library of games is good value for those looking for a 2 in 1 device. Effectively another take at them making Xbox a TV media center, with possibly TV in as well if desired, but done right.

    It should be able to best nvidia shield tv
     
    #94 iroboto, Dec 1, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  15. Jay

    Jay
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    How open are roku,shield, etc stores?
    Could MS, Sony put streaming apps on them?
    Assume they could....
     
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  16. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Agreed, and I think the very casual market is exactly what such a device is for, especially in the age of streaming and subscriptions.

    But it still begs the question of which option to spend money R&D'ing?

    1) a 7nm iteration of the XBoxOne APU. Not likely IMO.

    2) the minimum required hardware to emulate the XBoxOne. Most likely IMO.

    3) the minimum required hardware to play XBoxTwo games at 30fps 720p-1080p. More powerful than the XBoxOne, and able to emulate it, but architecturally more XBoxTwo than XBoxOne. Most interesting IMO.

    Absolutely. And they get to have their cake and eat it like they tried to do with the XBoxOne. The difference is that customers can choose. But not like last time, when they chose the PS4 :p

    I'm not sure if TV in is ever going to come back. Handy as that feature reportedly was, isn't broadcast TV dwindling?

    I'd be worried if it couldn't!
     
  17. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    7nm shrink or any node shrinks may be part of a contract with AMD. I would declare this as standard cost savings, the same could be going into 1S. And 1X could experience a shrink as well. It’s not like sales for devices will suddenly stall for the next 2 years and growth has been increasing for Xbox.

    TV is already there, they won’t spend the R&D to take it out. But if it’s a small form factor they may remove as many ports as possible.

    HDMI out, power, digital audio, Ethernet. Maybe USB if there is spce
     
    #97 iroboto, Dec 1, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  18. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    A 7nm XB1 will be the smallest, cheapest option, surely? Any other solution that's more powerful will be more silicon so cost more, plus the added development of making it perfectly XB1 compatible.
     
  19. Jay

    Jay
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    Many reasons why a slightly more powerful 1S apu would be beneficial.
    1. Give a better local experience as the 1S is really struggling already.
    2. For xcloud, forgetting the fact that the 1S has the lowest resolution and graphics setting, the biggest problem is performance that will be multiplied by latency.
    Even if the streaming tech itself is great, beyond MS 1P games rest may not perform very well.

    If they could've waited until next gen I believe they would've, but just too much competition on the horizon to not show that their in the game.
    But, I still believe it will be the current 1S apu (no upclock), possibly a shrink but I also doubt that to be honest (possible mild upclock like the 1S). They'll ride out this gen without spending more on the 1S.

    So I don't expect 1S 7nm in discless device either. Unless there was huge net savings.
     
  20. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Good point. But I'm not sure whether node shrinks are necessarily part of their agreement and, if so, how many shrinks?

    I've been under the impression, possibly misapprehension, that there would be a cost to bear, for Microsoft or Sony, for any given node shrink. At least, when an existing node hasn't been retired.

    On that basis, I've considered it possible that it may just be cheaper to use existing 7nm parts i.e. an 8 core, 1.75Ghz Zen 2, with a 12CU Navi.

    The memory's probably tricky, but given that the X1X dispensed with SRAM, it's possible. Maybe too expensive though, given that the X1X's solution was 12GB of GDDR5 on a 384 bit bus.

    Oh, I thought the XBoxOneS had already removed the TV in thing. Fair enough then, it'd be a pretty good inclusion, but yeah, agreed, I think it's one of the first things on the chopping block if the form factor's small enough.

    Possibly, especially if iroboto's right about node shrinks being included in their agreements.

    I'm really curious how close we are to seeing GPU chiplets. Zen 2's there already, Navi may or may not be. Being able to take some fairly low binning CPU and GPU chiplets and bash them together with some GDDR6 could make this device reeeeeally cheap.

    And at that point, why not just push the BOM up another $10-$20 and use slightly higher binning parts? And maybe each GPU chiplet's 20CU's, even 10 CU's, would 12CU's be the right amount any more?

    That's a lot of maybes :p

    As for the development of making it XBoxOne compatible, if it was the XBoxTwo architecture in its most minimal form, that development would be done anyway.
     
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