MS introducing subsidized 360+Kinect bundle for $99 + 2yr, $15/month XBLG contract

[KongRudi]

The worst part isn't that they charge much more than all the other retailers in total, the really bad part is that they move the cost of the value from one product to the other.

It dosn't really matter if you think XBlive service is worth it or not - it's a service, and the value is gone after it's used and it's only usefull to you, that price is marked up roughly 200% - while they mark down the price of the other real valuable product.

- Since I'm a fanboy, I have to illustrate with a car-analogy, wich is mandatory for a proper fanboy-post.

Let's assume this all is super-sucesfull, and other companies, i.e. Toyota tries to mimick this stuff.
So next year, you decide to buy a 100$ car, provided you sign a contract, that you do 1000$ yearly mandatory service at the retailers garage for 4 years.
The work and time spent at the garage dosn't cost anything - you only pay for eventual new parts.

You might be happy, and drive home in what you think are your 4000$ car, clearly it's worth it. And it will be kept top notch for 4 years. Hooray..

However, as you leave the car, and yells to your spouse to come out and look at the new car, someone knocks your head, and grabs the carkeys, before speeding off in your shiny new car. After you called the police, the thief totals your car in a wild chase, and dies.

You call up your insurance company, and by some miracle they are super nice and the best insurance-company in the world, they decide to give you no hassle - and since it all happened the first day, they didn't decrease the value at all of your brand new car at all - they even travel to your home and hands you the money in cash, 100$.

So now you sit with a bump in your head, 100$, and 4 upcoming 1000$ bills, the next 4 years.
If you go to the car-dealer, they will tell you this is between you and your insurance company, if you go to the insurance company they will tell you that they've allready refunded the car, and point at your receipt.

 

[mrcorbo]

The worst part isn't that they charge much more than all the other retailers in total, the really bad part is that they move the cost of the value from one product to the other.

It dosn't really matter if you think XBlive service is worth it or not - it's a service, and the value is gone after it's used and it's only usefull to you, that price is marked up roughly 200% - while they mark down the price of the other real valuable product.

- Since I'm a fanboy, I have to illustrate with a car-analogy, wich is mandatory for a proper fanboy-post.

Let's assume this all is super-sucesfull, and other companies, i.e. Toyota tries to mimick this stuff.
So next year, you decide to buy a 100$ car, provided you sign a contract, that you do 1000$ yearly mandatory service at the retailers garage for 4 years.
The work and time spent at the garage dosn't cost anything - you only pay for eventual new parts.

You might be happy, and drive home in what you think are your 4000$ car, clearly it's worth it. And it will be kept top notch for 4 years. Hooray..

However, as you leave the car, and yells to your spouse to come out and look at the new car, someone knocks your head, and grabs the carkeys, before speeding off in your shiny new car. After you called the police, the thief totals your car in a wild chase, and dies.

You call up your insurance company, and by some miracle they are super nice and the best insurance-company in the world, they decide to give you no hassle - and since it all happened the first day, they didn't decrease the value at all of your brand new car at all - they even travel to your home and hands you the money in cash, 100$.

So now you sit with a bump in your head, 100$, and 4 upcoming 1000$ bills, the next 4 years.
If you go to the car-dealer, they will tell you this is between you and your insurance company, if you go to the insurance company they will tell you that they've allready refunded the car, and point at your receipt.

That's not how insurance works. At least not any policy that I've been a party to.

 

[Gerry]

Congratulations KongRudi on quite possibly the worst car analogy I've read on here for some time.

 

[KongRudi]

That's not how insurance works. At least not any policy that I've been a party to.

Sure, you can buy really good insurance wich will replace everything regardless, but most people struggling to afford a 360 won't be having that kind of money.

I put in a best-case scenario for my hypotetical car-bundle, just to illustrate my point.
Offcourse, you would have to pay something of the car aswell, and the value would be less since it's no longer new.
However, the point is that the insurance-company would cover the value of the stolen goods in such a bundle, the car, and not what you pay for the garage-service you subscribed to.

It's the same with Xbox+Kinect is set at 99$ new, if those parts get stolen, you'll not get more than double the sum to buy a new kit.
And MS won't sell stand-alone 99$ console+kinect, without the inflated price on XBox Live, if they did, alot of people could buy a backup unit, or fund it by selling the brand new consoles in the pawnshops.

This is just plain fraud of the consumer, they value XBox Live higher, and the console less - obviously a subscription is not of the same value once the consumer have bought it, compared to a console, but he still have to pay for it.
That way they can say it cost less, wich it dosn't.

However, let's assume you somehow manage to get yourself a new car, even tough you only paid 100$ for it, after lots of trouble with insurance company..

And then you drive along happily, until you come across a gas station, wich have put up a huge sign - where they promise to sell the gas 10% cheaper than the gas station 200 yards down the road.
And when you were parked and ready to fill up your tank, you see there is a 10% operator--fee for pumping the gas from the gastation to your cartank.

I doub't you'd smile and be happy and say, atleast the gas is cheaper.. :-/

 

[AlphaWolf]

What the hell are you on about?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

- Since I'm a fanboy, I have to illustrate with a car-analogy, wich is mandatory for a proper fanboy-post.

No mention of engines and gearboxes, or sports cars compared to City minicars? I'm disappointed.

Your post assumes that the deal is quite literally $100 for the car and $1000pa for servicing. That's not what's happening here. This deal is $460 for the console and services bundled. That's the same as buying a $4100 car for a $100 downpayment and 4 annual payments of $1000. You insurance should be for $4100. Or, if Toyota really is selling the car for $100 and then the service contract, the $100 insurance money would buy you a new car to replace the stolen one and you can continue using the service you are paying for. If your XB360 gets stolen, phone up MS for another, paying with your insurance money, and carry on using your Live! subscription.

Hire-purchase isn't anything new. Society has got along with it just fine (I'm guessing, having zero experience, but it's still with us. Then again one could say we've got along wtih lone-sharking just fine!). This particular offering isn't offering anything new or different, other than skipping the middleman with a hire-purchase deal straight from the manufacturer.

 

[RobertR1]

Between the car analogy and the java thread I just read, I feel like a little dumbed down now.

 

[AzBat]

What about warranty for the kinect?

I was thinking it was 90 days like all Xbox accessories, but according to the web site it's 1 year.

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/repair/kinect-warranty

& the extended warranty is $25 for an extra year for either the Xbox or Kinect...

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/repair/extended-service-plan

Oh and as for the extra 40 USD.

Just out of curiosity I went to Newegg.com. A 1 year extended warranty (which comes with this subscription plan) is 25 USD there.

So over the length of 2 years, you're actually only paying 15 USD more tha you would for a non-subscription based X360 with extended warranty and 2 years of Xbox Live gold at MSRP.

Obviously shopping around can get you good deals. But that's true for everything.

Like you said you can shop around & get all kinds of deals. So for a truly apple-to-apple comparison you really need to just use Microsoft's own pricing...

Xbox 360 4gb console + Kinect - $299.99
2 years of Xbox Live Gold service - $59.99 x 2 = $119.98
1 year extended warranty for Xbox 360 - $24.99
1 year extended warranty for Kinect - $24.99
TOTAL - $469.95

versus

Xbox 360 4gb console + Kinect - $99
2 years of service(includes Xbox Live Gold & 2 year warranty plus additional content) - $15/month = $360
TOTAL - $459

You're actually saving $10.95 going with the $99 deal.

Again, if you were to go to Amazon or Newegg & get any of their deals you'll save lots more money over Microsoft's MSRP, but the rumor says this deal is from Microsoft's own stores & not online. From what I read on GAF it seems it's a Microsoft Store exclusive until later in the fall when I'm sure they will go to other stores to compete with the Wii U launch.

Tommy McClain

 

[mrcorbo]

Sure, you can buy really good insurance wich will replace everything regardless, but most people struggling to afford a 360 won't be having that kind of money.

You're mistakenly assuming the assessed value of an item has a direct relationship to the purchase price. It doesn't. I bought my first car for $2,000 and when I crashed it a couple of years later the insurance company reimbursed me $4,000 for the value of the car.

 

[AzBat]

Between the car analogy and the java thread I just read, I feel like a little dumbed down now.

LOL agreed, but I will say this if you just ignore the analogy he does bring up the simple point: what happens if you're console and/or sensor is stolen? The standard warranty is only to cover repairs if say it RROD or a drive goes out, etc. I doubt the warranty covers stolen property. Are you stuck paying the rest of the 2 years? The devil in the details. So what does that $15/month cover? Is it just a Gold subscription fee or is it a contract fee? Depending on that will determine whether or not if insurance is included to cover possible theft. That's a valid concern, stupid car analogy aside. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[RobertR1]

LOL agreed, but I will say this if you just ignore the analogy he does bring up the simple point: what happens if you're console and/ore sensor is stolen? The standard warranty is only to cover repairs if say it RROD or a drive goes out, etc. I doubt the warranty covers stolen property. Are you stuck paying the rest of the 2 years? The devil in the details. So what does that $15/month cover? Is it just a Gold subscription fee or is it a contract fee? Depending on that will determine whether or not if insurance is included to cover possible theft. That's a valid concern, stupid car analogy aside. LOL

Tommy McClain

Your home owners insurance (or renters) will cover theft.

 

[AzBat]

Your home owners insurance (or renters) will cover theft.

True. So you're assuming that Microsoft is not covering theft in their contract/subscription? I think you're right. If there is an early termination fee like a cell phone contract then I'm sure they will also offer a monthly fee to cover replacement in case of theft.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

Considering this 2-year subscription/contact option might be coming so close to the release of the next-generation, does anybody think Microsoft will offer a upgrade plan to the newer system? Say, trade in your old system & pay a one-time fee & extend your subscription/contract another 2 years?

So far I like the premise, but the nitty gritty details on the extent of the extra services and the questions on theft & upgrades is making me want some answers before I consider it for myself.

Tommy McClain

 

[AlNom]

Considering this 2-year subscription/contact option might be coming so close to the release of the next-generation, does anybody think Microsoft will offer a upgrade plan..

Sure, why not? http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1640601&postcount=7

There are upgrade plans with cell-phone carriers, no? (I know very little about cell phones )

 

[RudeCurve]

If they offer an upgrade path it won't be for a $500 next generation console unless you're willing to pay $300 or more to upgrade. I don't think they'll take trade-ins unless MS is in the business of selling pre-owned consoles.

 

[joker454]

Sure, why not? http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1640601&postcount=7

There are upgrade plans with cell-phone carriers, no? (I know very little about cell phones )

AT&T did it on the iPhone 4 if I recall, where if you only had 6 months left on your contract on your iPhone 3gs they let you get an iPhone 4 at the subsidized price. Should be possible on consoles.

If they offer an upgrade path it won't be for a $500 next generation console unless you're willing to pay $300 or more to upgrade. I don't think they'll take trade-ins unless MS is in the business of selling pre-owned consoles.

Why not? It's not like they will take back your old 360, they will just early end your old 2 year subsidy with no penalty and start you on a new one on the new machine. Any operating 360 in the wild means money for Microsoft, they are used for far more than just games nowadays. So to Microsoft it's win win, they lock you on the new Xbox 720 for 2 years, and the old 360 goes on to keep earning Micrisoft money with someone else.

 

[AzBat]

Sure, why not? http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1640601&postcount=7

There are upgrade plans with cell-phone carriers, no? (I know very little about cell phones )

Ha! Must have passed over that! Yes, upgrade plans for cell phones have been around for awhile. Even before iPhone & smartphones.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

AT&T did it on the iPhone 4 if I recall, where if you only had 6 months left on your contract on your iPhone 3gs they let you get an iPhone 4 at the subsidized price. Should be possible on consoles.



Why not? It's not like they will take back your old 360, they will just early end your old 2 year subsidy with no penalty and start you on a new one on the new machine. Any operating 360 in the wild means money for Microsoft, they are used for far more than just games nowadays. So to Microsoft it's win win, they lock you on the new Xbox 720 for 2 years, and the old 360 goes on to keep earning Micrisoft money with someone else.

Yeah, exchanging the console might be a bit much. Makes more sense to let you keep it & start the new contract on the new system. Will be interesting to finally get the official details from Microsoft.

Tommy McClain

 

[joker454]

Yeah, exchanging the console might be a bit much. Makes more sense to let you keep it & start the new contract on the new system. Will be interesting to finally get the official details from Microsoft.

Tommy McClain

Yeah it's what At&t did, they didn't take your old iPhone 3gs, they just sold you a new cheap iPhone 4 and locked you in for two years. Most people presumably just sold their old iPhone 3gs phones on ebay and At&t will keep making revenue on those once they are reactivated. DirecTV does it a little different. They also lock you in for 2 years on subsidized hardware, but at any time I can call and get new subsizied hardware, like if a better model of receiver comes out. In that case they send you a new unit and you ship back your old one in a prepaid shipping box they supply, but they also then reset your contract for 2 years.

The same can be done with cars but it depends on the dealership and the relationship you have with them as it's not openly advertized. For example if you are leasing a car for 3 years and you get bored of it at year 2, some dealerships will let you out of your lease and take the car back if you sign a new lease on another car. In that case you bring the car back, give them the keys, leave with a new car and a new 3 year lease. Various financial services are the same, you can leave existing contracts if you enter into a new one.

In all cases the mantra is the same, the provider of said product/services is happy to help you get into something new, if you agree to be locked to them for 'x' period of time.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Yeah..but Joker, what happens when somebody steals your old car from the dealership when you are out test driving the new car you are planning to lease? What then? What happens then!