Billy Idol
Legend
Black Panther...boring as hell.
Some decisions so stupid...unbelievable.
Meh. Only hero that counts is Deadpool.
Some decisions so stupid...unbelievable.
Meh. Only hero that counts is Deadpool.
Movie Reviews 2.0
- Thread starter Dresden
- Start date
Started to move the Star Wars topic into its own thread: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/star-wars-discussion-thread-movies-books-plotholes-etc.60638/
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
I watched Black Panther last friday.
It was a pretty good movie, in line with other Marvel movies we've seen. Definitely not a movie worth 100% rating, and that's just the narrative pushing media critics we have today unfortunately, but it's still an enjoyable movie IMO.
The casino scene was really awesome, like a mini spy arc inside a superhero movie, and the political commentary felt surprisingly sane.
I'm certainly looking forward to more content based on Black Panther.
That an utopian and supposedly super-developed country in Africa would have a political head of state chosen through a fight to the death between members of selected families and not through equal votes among the citizens?
Unlike all the raving reviews I've seen out there, I fail to see how this puts African culture in a good light.
I really hope we're not going into racist territory here by saying it's culturally significant because it's directed and starred by black people.
It was a pretty good movie, in line with other Marvel movies we've seen. Definitely not a movie worth 100% rating, and that's just the narrative pushing media critics we have today unfortunately, but it's still an enjoyable movie IMO.
The villain had his genuinely good moments but the "burn all things and conquer the worldz!" attitudes in the third act made him a bit too comic book-ish evil IMO.
Then after all the wonders they tell about Wakanda, the "country" feels... extremely small.. Maybe they should have made it a city-state for setting the narrative better.. because the difference in scale between what is shown and what is told quite a bit off IMO.
Sure they're very technologically advanced and have all those gadgets etc., but then the only place where they develop new tech seems to be in that place next to the vibranium mining facility. And there's only one scientist working there which is the princess / king's sister. And that also doubles/triples as the... hospital..?
And a military coup d'etat would happen through a fight between some 60 people and.. armored rhinos?
Again: scale seems to be off in the movie.
Then after all the wonders they tell about Wakanda, the "country" feels... extremely small.. Maybe they should have made it a city-state for setting the narrative better.. because the difference in scale between what is shown and what is told quite a bit off IMO.
Sure they're very technologically advanced and have all those gadgets etc., but then the only place where they develop new tech seems to be in that place next to the vibranium mining facility. And there's only one scientist working there which is the princess / king's sister. And that also doubles/triples as the... hospital..?
And a military coup d'etat would happen through a fight between some 60 people and.. armored rhinos?
Again: scale seems to be off in the movie.
The casino scene was really awesome, like a mini spy arc inside a superhero movie, and the political commentary felt surprisingly sane.
I'm certainly looking forward to more content based on Black Panther.
What is the cultural significance of the movie?
That an utopian and supposedly super-developed country in Africa would have a political head of state chosen through a fight to the death between members of selected families and not through equal votes among the citizens?
Unlike all the raving reviews I've seen out there, I fail to see how this puts African culture in a good light.
I really hope we're not going into racist territory here by saying it's culturally significant because it's directed and starred by black people.
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
It's a shame seeing every piece of media become embroiled in the racist mores of recent times.
Every bit of footage I've seen of Black Panther has intrigued me and left me eager to see it, but because it looks like good, theatrical, popcorn fun, not because of anyone's pigmentation.
I'm sure, if you're black, it's nice to see a big budget film with a predominantly black cast. Just like it was nice to hear northern English accents from the northerners in Game of Thrones. Isn't that enough?
"Hey, that's cool!" rather than "Finally! My people!" seems like the direction we all need to go.
Weirdly though, when Gods of Egypt was released, I didn't hear anyone dragging it through the mud for literally every Egyptian god being a white guy. Is that just because it was an objectively bad movie?
Every bit of footage I've seen of Black Panther has intrigued me and left me eager to see it, but because it looks like good, theatrical, popcorn fun, not because of anyone's pigmentation.
I'm sure, if you're black, it's nice to see a big budget film with a predominantly black cast. Just like it was nice to hear northern English accents from the northerners in Game of Thrones. Isn't that enough?
"Hey, that's cool!" rather than "Finally! My people!" seems like the direction we all need to go.
Weirdly though, when Gods of Egypt was released, I didn't hear anyone dragging it through the mud for literally every Egyptian god being a white guy. Is that just because it was an objectively bad movie?
Gods of Egypt had LOADS of bad press for whitewashing.
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
Really? I never saw it get any press of any sort. Good, they deserved to be slated.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
Yup, it had.
Though people have also called "whitewashing" at Mr Robot's Rami Malek playing a Pharaoh in "Night at the Museum".
Rami Malek, whose parents are both egyptian immigrants..
Though people have also called "whitewashing" at Mr Robot's Rami Malek playing a Pharaoh in "Night at the Museum".
Rami Malek, whose parents are both egyptian immigrants..
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You mean you can't see any significance in finally having such a huge film having a predominantly black cast, a black director and a story that is centered in Africa? In this day and age? Nothing special? Or rare? OKAYYYYY!
Honestly I don't want to have this kind of conversation here. You have your politics forum for that.
Honestly I don't want to have this kind of conversation here. You have your politics forum for that.
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His point is that we shouldn't have to distinguish and celebrate a movie by black people, simply a movie by people irrespective of their skin color. The quality of the movie and the talent within it has nothing to do with the shade of skin they have. The African culture portrayed? Sure, it's always great to see different cultures being a huge influence in a movie. And there's likely a tribal significance in the selection of the leaders portrayed, I really have no idea and can't be bothered googling it. If that's somewhat rooted in reality based on a long history of that culture, then great. It doesn't mesh with a utopian developed ideal though.
But as you said, in this day and age somehow there is still a huge racist upbringing in many countries that will likely take decades if not centuries to completely wipe away. There are many people like myself who grew up just simply view people from different cultures and parts of the world as just that, and don't differentiate just because they're black. And to me, highlighting their background based on such mundane labels and celebrating it is part of the problem and in my mind, racist.
"Yay, black people made a popular movie, aren't they great?" Don't you see a problem with that?
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
Yes, you are taking all the hard work, sweat and tear from a group of talented people and reducing it to a matter of race.
You are reducing them to the color of their skin.
And I can't really think of any other interpretation of it other than racism/bigotry.
You should listen to what this enlightened wise man has to say about it:
At least for the money behind the movies, it may be a change or serves as a sampling point where a change was finally measured.
I got the sense that there was a fair amount of uncertainty based on some historical data but also a general lack of examples, which fed back into the risk-averse AAA production system.
Most of the smaller number of movies with some or many of the characteristics of this movie and its production seemed to correlate with box office failure, which then meant the system would move avoid or minimize investment in movies that fall in that set. When the cycle repeated, the system would cite a lack of successful examples based on the previous iteration of a few and generally unsupported efforts.
I noted a number of black reviewers expressed personal relief that this movie was generally well-received and successful, given the specter of what would go into the feedback loop should one or the other have turned out otherwise. The full range of thoughts and feelings they had on the matter and other implications isn't something I am positioned to expound on, but to have an movie where something they identified with (or also what the production system or society identified with them) in just one part working out right seems like it would be a relief to have accepted when the hysteresis of the industry and general acceptance was the opposite. To have such a concentration of them unambiguously work out would seemingly be even more gratifying.
I think in a sort of cosmic irony, the more cynical business side that had invested in the venture likely had an oddly coincident set of worries, fitted to the system's particular needs.
Is that level of hyper-awareness of the topic on the part of society and the industry potentially overemphasizing this one commercial product and distorting how it is evaluated in many different axes? Given the hype-driven and emotional nature of a business founded on perception, I think that is inevitable. However, if the movie itself is not the change in the direction of the feedback loop or the cultural base, it may be a sign of the change the production and financing system naturally lags in detecting. Since this is dealing with mass media which the culture then consumes, is changed by, and then creates demand for, the systems may not be truly separable.
If the argument is that society should be or has moved past this, then this was an uncommonly unambiguous opportunity to prove it.
I got the sense that there was a fair amount of uncertainty based on some historical data but also a general lack of examples, which fed back into the risk-averse AAA production system.
Most of the smaller number of movies with some or many of the characteristics of this movie and its production seemed to correlate with box office failure, which then meant the system would move avoid or minimize investment in movies that fall in that set. When the cycle repeated, the system would cite a lack of successful examples based on the previous iteration of a few and generally unsupported efforts.
I noted a number of black reviewers expressed personal relief that this movie was generally well-received and successful, given the specter of what would go into the feedback loop should one or the other have turned out otherwise. The full range of thoughts and feelings they had on the matter and other implications isn't something I am positioned to expound on, but to have an movie where something they identified with (or also what the production system or society identified with them) in just one part working out right seems like it would be a relief to have accepted when the hysteresis of the industry and general acceptance was the opposite. To have such a concentration of them unambiguously work out would seemingly be even more gratifying.
I think in a sort of cosmic irony, the more cynical business side that had invested in the venture likely had an oddly coincident set of worries, fitted to the system's particular needs.
Is that level of hyper-awareness of the topic on the part of society and the industry potentially overemphasizing this one commercial product and distorting how it is evaluated in many different axes? Given the hype-driven and emotional nature of a business founded on perception, I think that is inevitable. However, if the movie itself is not the change in the direction of the feedback loop or the cultural base, it may be a sign of the change the production and financing system naturally lags in detecting. Since this is dealing with mass media which the culture then consumes, is changed by, and then creates demand for, the systems may not be truly separable.
If the argument is that society should be or has moved past this, then this was an uncommonly unambiguous opportunity to prove it.
Oh fuck! Right! Off!
It is NOT racist to be happy the success of this movie for what it CELEBRATES. It is not racist to acknowledge the fact that black culture and people have been underrepresented in cinema for a very, very long time. Which is something that this movie tries to fix and did so by making a shit load of money.
It is racist, however, to sweep over it and call people racist (?!) for having this opinion.
If it makes you so uncomfortable to recognise that Black Panther is gloriously celebrating black, African culture, in a respectful, beautiful, epic way, you’re racist.
If it makes you uncomfortable to recognise that black culture has been heavily mis- and underrepresented in cinema for far too long, guess what? You racist.
If you “don’t see colour”, guess what? You are racist!
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/of-course-you-see-color-stop-being-ridiculous
Now, back to movie talk thanks.
If it makes you uncomfortable to recognise that black culture has been heavily mis- and underrepresented in cinema for far too long, guess what? You racist.
If you “don’t see colour”, guess what? You are racist!
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/of-course-you-see-color-stop-being-ridiculous
Now, back to movie talk thanks.
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We shouldn't have to have LGBT pride either, yet it IS necessary, due to the constant reactionary pushback from evil bigots who incessantly try to walk the clock back to the 1950s. Reactionary bigoted people who as politicians make laws legalizing LGBT discrimination in business, workplace, schools, everywhere.
So yeah, we shouldn't have to celebrate these things, but still we do, because simply way too many people are evil crapheads.
Not looking to derail the thread; just making this one single observation.
Well... as a bisexual man, I don't feel the need to celebrate it, honestly. My little contribution for this world to be a better place (with regard to this specific issue) is trying to live my life and sexuality with a total normality, so I only feel the need to live a "normal" life and to talk about it without being pushy nor confrontational myself.
I understand that sometimes making some (or a lot of) noise is necessary, and I'm really thankful that many people have done so in the past, because that achieved important goals and rights we all enjoy today, but I also believe that things evolve and that now we could try a different approach whenever it is possible.
Overall, we are already recognised by most people as normal people with the same rights, too, and international institutions and most countries do show that in their laws, as well, and I honestly believe that this is going to expand and improve (the international, press and social media pressure is very important, now). Now that we have this and we don't have to protest to get it (with notable exceptions, though! but please understand my main point, here), we could focus on trying to show people that we're just like them, and I think we're just feeding the trolls when we scream "we want to marry!!!!" in the streets while wearing a jockstrap and French-kissing with everyone... I have to make clear that this last example was a bit extreme, yes, but not too far from reality. And I also must make clear that no, I'm not against people partying, doing crazy stuff (which I myself can find funny, depending on the occasion) or having an open sexual life, but I don't think it's a good idea mixing those actions with a protest to expect that people see us as "normal" as them.
Maybe my post has some unfortunate sentences, so to speak, and I didn't express myself quite well, but these are just my two cents.
Billy Idol
Legend
I don’t care about color like all of you guys do.
I care about
I care about
the decision of the movie makers that nearly before every single fight our super hero loses all its super power willingly....such that nearly every single action scene in this movie is boring as fuck!!!
What a boring ass show....how about a Hulk movie were Hulk never transforms into green, but rather hand claps the enemies and the audience into sleep.
He did fight himself in a mirror match basically...but there was no monster, no other super villain with crazy powers, no threat actually...what the actual fuck did they think about why people go watch super hero movies...because no one cares about “super”???
Meh. Potential wasted.
What a boring ass show....how about a Hulk movie were Hulk never transforms into green, but rather hand claps the enemies and the audience into sleep.
He did fight himself in a mirror match basically...but there was no monster, no other super villain with crazy powers, no threat actually...what the actual fuck did they think about why people go watch super hero movies...because no one cares about “super”???
Meh. Potential wasted.
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D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
It celebrates African culture and it celebrates the work of talented individuals. You're the only one who's gratuitously celebrating the color of their skin.
You're the only one apparently obsessed with it.
It's racist to negate the representation of black culture and black people in cinema previous to Black Panther, which is what you're doing.
Will Smith was the highest paid and highest grossing actor in Hollywood for the better part of a decade between late 90s and mid 2000s. And curiously, that title now belongs to Dwayne Johnson who comes from a black nova scotian father and a samoan mother.
Will Smith's prominent roles include I am Legend, I Robot, Independence Day, Men in Black, Hitch, award-winning Ali and many other cinema legends.
Django Unchained featuring Jamie Foxx was a major box office success and won both Golden Globes and Oscars.
Jamie Foxx also has a terrific curriculum. He won an Oscar and a Golden Globe (among pretty much all the other lesser known awards for best actor like BAFTA, Actors Guild, etc.) for Ray, which is a biopic about an african-american musician and black culture.
Denzel Washington (who played Malcom X which is about Black Culture and emancipation) is another living legend in the cinema, with awards and great movies both as an actor and as a producer. He also played Frank Lucas in American Gangster, the biopic of a black gangster that operated in Harlem in the 70s.
12 Years a Slave swept the Oscars not long ago in 2014, and since then Lupita Nyong'o has been on a high-roll ever since.
As for super hero movies, ask anyone who was the coolest movie hero during late 90s and early 2000s and 9 out of 10 will tell you it was Blade, portrayed by Wesley Snipes.
All of these mentions are just the tip of the iceberg, as I could go on and on about the very relevant works of Cuba Gooding Jr, Whoopi Goldberg, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson who got to be the only actor ever to dictate the color of his lightsaber in Star Wars just because he could.
But all of a sudden, you and so many others are cheerfully willing to undermine the work and progress made by so many talented people just to play this guilt-trip card and further a divisionist agenda.
Shame on you. That's racist.
I recognize the advantages in celebrating African culture. I disagree especially with the "epic" part, as the sets' scale seem off like I explained in my critique.
You seem to be in the "if you don't agree this movie is the epitome of human evolution, you're racist!!!1111one" team.
That's the racist team, IMO.
I'm never going to stop from noticing and commenting on mistakes and errors because they were made by a person of race X or Y.
That's racism and I refuse to do it.
If I refuse to treat people differently according to the color of their skin, I'm racist?
You switched a couple of wires in there.
Back in high-school I used to get beaten by the (all white) boys in my own class, while a number of the girls (also from my class) would laugh about it in the background. They did so while telling me to "go sell carpets" like the brown-skinned vendors from Morocco they saw at fares.
Accordingly, all those times I went home crying, holding on to bloody hands, arms, face, etc., all I wished for was to be treated equally so I could get the same chances at making friends, getting a girlfriend and not being the last one chosen for a sports team in P.E..
And during the constant imagination-fueled day-dreams of my terrible early-teens, I confess I did dream of all the bullies starting to respect and ask for forgiveness, but it was always because I had somehow saved the class/school from an alien/mutant/zombie/evil-robot invasion. I constantly longed for recognition for something that I did, and not for the different color of my skin.
I wonder if London-Boy or Grall have ever been the target of racial hate.
It sure looks like they never have, and are on this quest for white racist guilt-trip that is now fashionable among far-left totalitarians.
I agree with everything you said, except this. While I can see why people associate racism / xenophobia with political spectrums, I think it is a very simplistic vision. Racism / xenophobia or minority groups defense can easily be found among both political spectrums (I think you will find plenty of old hardcore communists that are xenophobic and plenty of conservatives who are pro-minority groups). However, it is true that some left, not only immediately associates themselves with these causes, but also state they are the legit and sole defenders of them. As for me, left and right are limited to different views of social and economic organisation, irrespective of one's skin colour, religion, nationality, sexual orientation etc.
If I'm being superhonest, all this makes me feel so sad, because I understand that neither of you are racist (neither the users you mention nor you), but you're just arguing about your different approaches, both of which I understand, even though I don't agree with them all the time.
I also feel sorry about you being discriminated and mocked because of the colour of your skin. That's horrible. I've been a teased/bullied kid, too (albeit for other reasons, though), so I know how it feels.
I was not going to go into personal territory, but reading that, and keeping in mind my numerous hard discussions with Totten, it could only come to mind how suffering (surviving) those experiences made us very strong headed. I was bullied a lot in school, although I never got exactly bloody since I could get very very aggressive and stop it - making me basically have no friends since I was considered a weirdo.. a consequence not from skin colour or sexual orientation, but from spending most of my childhood in terror from my own schizophrenic paranoid mother. @ToTTenTranz well done in getting over that and having a successful life!
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