Reverend at The Pulpit #12

[Scali]

Man, you really are on a crusade aren't you Scali?

How many posts have you wasted on this over the past few days?

I will use as many posts as it takes to get Beyond3D back into reality.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Perhaps the problem is that the people at Beyond3D here overrate themselves. B3D is just *one* of the beta members. So if you suggest one thing, and all other beta members suggest something else, your suggestion is discarded. Simple no?

Another thing is that I think you seem to have forgotten that you are members of the press, not game developers. To point out the problem: how many games or other high-end realtime graphics applications have you written lately? You may know the theory, but you don't have the hands-on experience that game developers do.
This became painfully obvious to me when I discussed 3Dc with DaveBaumann, and he didn't understand the implications of 3Dc not being able to return unnormalized vectors.

So I think you should look at yourself first.

I really think you should open your own 3D website Scali, you seem so knowledgeable about it and all, and never ever ever come back here....

 

[DeanoC]

Another thing is that I think you seem to have forgotten that you are members of the press, not game developers. To point out the problem: how many games or other high-end realtime graphics applications have you written lately? You may know the theory, but you don't have the hands-on experience that game developers do.
This became painfully obvious to me when I discussed 3Dc with DaveBaumann, and he didn't understand the implications of 3Dc not being able to return unnormalized vectors.

So I think you should look at yourself first.

That equally applies to you as well Scali, you write 3D renderers, not games and have clearly demonstrated in several past threads you don't understand the real world dynamics of making games.

As I've known to say in the past, anybody can write a 'teapot' renderer (a demo renderer), making a game engine is a different ballgame.

 

[Scali]

I really think you should open your own 3D website Scali, you seem so knowledgeable about it and all, and never ever ever come back here....

Ah so everyone hates me for criticizing Doom3, and now everyone hates me for supporting 3DMark05?
That's pathetic, you know that?
I don't really care, since in general the people who disagree are people like you, who lack the in-depth understanding and experience with 3D hardware, and turn to people like us to explain it to them.

I am just pointing out that this also goes for Beyond3D to a certain extent. DaveBaumann for example argued about including 3Dc, but it became clear that he did not understand the implications of this method.
If he did, his opinion on the issue could have been different.

 

[Scali]

That equally applies to you as well Scali, you write 3D renderers, not games and have clearly demonstrated in several past threads you don't understand the real world dynamics of making games.

That's funny, I don't recall ever telling you or anyone what exactly I do or don't write.

And what threads in particular are you referring to?

Are you just pulling all this out of your arse? Sounds like it.

As I've known to say in the past, anybody can write a 'teapot' renderer (a demo renderer), making a game engine is a different ballgame.

That is exactly my point. The guys at Beyond3D may know enough to spin a teapot in D3D, but I don't think they have the skill and knowledge it takes to write something like 3DMark05 or an actual game. And then it is only natural that they don't have what it takes to judge its contents well.

 

[[maven]]

The guys at Beyond3D may know enough to spin a teapot in D3D, but I don't think they have the skill and knowledge it takes to write something like 3DMark05 or an actual game. And then it is only natural that they don't have what it takes to judge its contents well.

Big difference.

 

[Scali]

]Big difference.

Elaborate.

 

[DeanoC]

[
That's funny, I don't recall ever telling you or anyone what exactly I do or don't write.

And what threads in particular are you referring to?

Are you just pulling all this out of your arse? Sounds like it.

I have a good memory (like an elephant) somebody asked you in a thread a month or two ago. But if you going to insult me I'll prove it

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15320&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

Not all developers are game developers. I am currently doing a project for a niche CAD program to design hydraulic manifolds, as I mentioned before elsewhere, I'm sure. Ironically enough, this is in OpenGL."

But I'm not going to get into a flamewar.

 

[[maven]]

]Big difference.

Elaborate.

Who is in control in 3DMark05? Who is in control in [insert game* here]?

*not Metal Gear Solid 2.

 

[Scali]

I have a good memory (like an elephant) somebody asked you in a thread a month or two ago. But if you going to insult me I'll prove it

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15320&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

Not all developers are game developers. I am currently doing a project for a niche CAD program to design hydraulic manifolds, as I mentioned before elsewhere, I'm sure. Ironically enough, this is in OpenGL."

But I'm not going to get into a flamewar.

I think you just got into one.
Namely, as I say, I didn't say what I do or don't write. It just says that at that time I was doing that project. It doesn't say exactly what I did there, and it also doesn't say what I did before, or what I did since.
You just pulled it out of context so you can flame me, apparently.

Shall I respond with "You just develop on consoles, you don't know anything about PCs or their 3d hardware and software"?
That would be silly. I know that first of all, consoles are quite similar technology to PCs, secondly that game development is often linked, and thirdly I don't know what you do or did besides console development.
If you would think, you could come up with the same kind of reasons not to have made the statements you made above.

 

[Scali]

]Who is in control in 3DMark05? Who is in control in [insert game* here]?

*not Metal Gear Solid 2.

Sorry, you completely lost me here.

 

[Hanners]

Ah so everyone hates me for criticizing Doom3, and now everyone hates me for supporting 3DMark05?

Funnily enough, I kind of agree with you on some facets of the 3DMark05 issue, it's just I'm getting sick of seeing post after post by you regurgitating the exact same point, and when a relevant point is brought up about your stace you resort to attacking the poster/website from whence it came.

You have your opinion, you've made your point - That's great. Now it would be really nice if you stopped trying to ram it down everyone elses throat in every single post.

I will use as many posts as it takes to get Beyond3D back into reality.

It isn't your site. Beyond3D have their stance, you have yours. Live with it.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Ah so everyone hates me for criticizing Doom3, and now everyone hates me for supporting 3DMark05?

Heck, I don't hate you Scali...life's too short for that, and I personally have pretty much supported 3dmark in all its forms so far just because I happen to personally like the benchmark and I feel it is very useful for giving me performance info.

That's pathetic, you know that?

Meh. Six of one, half a dozen of the other; I guess it depends on how you look at it.

I don't really care, since in general the people who disagree are people like you, who lack the in-depth understanding and experience with 3D hardware, and turn to people like us to explain it to them.

I don't deny my lack of knowledge about 3D hardware, and that IS why I hang here so much and ask questions....but I can honestly say that I do not think I'll be turning to you anytime soon for 3D advice/edumacation.

I am just pointing out that this also goes for Beyond3D to a certain extent. DaveBaumann for example argued about including 3Dc, but it became clear that he did not understand the implications of this method.
If he did, his opinion on the issue could have been different.

Or if he did, his opinion could still be the same....you'd really have to ask Dave about that one.

Scali, you're just coming across as a bit of a rabid maddog fanboy....take it from me, I'm kind of an expert on that particular subject.

 

[Reverend]

Perhaps the problem is that the people at Beyond3D here overrate themselves.

I'm sure glad you used the word "perhaps".

 

[Scali]

and when a relevant point is brought up about your stace you resort to attacking the poster/website from whence it came.

I don't think that is the case at all. If you think it is, show some (in-context) examples.

 

[Hanners]

I don't think that is the case at all. If you think it is, show some (in-context) examples.

Just read your own posts in this thread.

 

[DeanoC]

Ah so everyone hates me for criticizing Doom3, and now everyone hates me for supporting 3DMark05?

Actually no, I disagree with you on Doom3 and kind of agree on 3DMark05.

Did you ever stop to consider that the Beyond3D staff might have asked people about these things... So by claiming that they don't understand the problem at hand you (prehaps inadventantly) insulted those people?

Sorry if its not any clearer but prehaps you should read Rev's pulpit again and mention of a developer. Hopefully you can work out why I was a little pissed.

I shouldn't have questioned your game developer status and for that I apolgise but than prehaps you shouldn't have questioned (indirectly) mine...

 

[Scali]

Did you ever stop to consider that the Beyond3D staff might have asked people about these things... So by claiming that they don't understand the problem at hand you (prehaps inadventantly) insulted those people?

I don't think anyone should feel insulted by not understanding something.
And especially people who try to explain an issue to someone who doesn't understand it, shouldn't feel insulted.
Perhaps more people should be reading Reverend's signature.

I didn't mean to insult anyone, I just wanted to give a reality check. It's 3DMark, not Beyond3DMark

I do know that plenty of others insulted me. It's not worth it.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I didn't mean to insult anyone, I just wanted to give a reality check.

If you weren't trying to insult anyone than you either just have a natural aptitude for it or else you really gotta work on your people skills! :?

 

[Scali]

If you weren't trying to insult anyone than you either just have a natural aptitude for it or else you really gotta work on your people skills! :?

No, I did mean to insult you and martrox, you were getting on my case (among others)