Mining vs Gaming Products or something *spawn*

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by DavidGraham, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Man from Atlantis

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  2. HLJ

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    My bet is that NVIDIA will clamp mining down on new SKU's EVEN harder to split their product line up, just like mention before in this thread (Tesla, Quadro, Geforce and now mining)
    Just a shame they mised the first Ampere SKU's...but I will surive....as will everybody else.
     
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  3. CarstenS

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  4. Man from Atlantis

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    Yeah RVN is currently getting pumped and dumped? for some reason.

    A 3060 owner on reddit says the card is getting throttled only on ethash algo, other coins are #SAFU. It's interesting Nvidia crippled only ethash performance and not other algorithms as well. If RVN or any other coin is profitable close to ethereum levels, gamers are still in danger.

     
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  5. DegustatoR

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    I would expect regular updates to the anti-mining now, possibly even locking newer cards to some future minimum driver version.
     
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  6. arandomguy

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    Honestly I don't feel this is really all that bad or aggressive against the side/hobby/casual miner, in fact it might be better in some cases. It's still hashing at a profitable rate and because it's essentially running the card's resources at a limited capacity essentially much 'safer" with respect to longevity for those just doing it casually on the side. If you're also just mining as a hobby out of interest you can still look at different cryptos as well. Obviously if you're just buying for gaming or content creation you can still just mine on the side and make some supplemental money fine.

    What this seems to really target and will give pause to is really those small business/startup mining operations that are aggressively hitting the retail channel for graphics cards, which is directly competing for the supply stock with Nvidia's gaming market and burgeoning "creator" market, to build entire mining rigs. The vast majority of complaints being seeded are likely from those doing this.

    With this I wonder if they did consider a solution that also hit performance should their be multiple GPUs in one system and operating at low PCIe links (<8 maybe or <4 for some margin of safety) which the above would be doing as they aren't even marketing SLI anymore. Even compute based workloads outside of mining in consumer type builds I'd think are still going to be using at minimum >x4.

    I'd hazard to guess that Nvidia will also likely in the background be much more aggressive with respect to how the major mining operations are getting products. This isn't really altruistic but why would they be happy with AiBs/distributors/etc. taking most of the profit slice while they themselves take a PR/customer dissatisfaction hit and disrupt longer term market plans? I'd actually wonder if the real big operations might even be happier/better of if it hypothetically results in less competition from the small startup types.
     
    #126 arandomguy, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  7. CarstenS

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    If they wouldn't want to shoulder blame, they could, theoretically, be upfront about how many GPUs they shipped to their AIB partners (in total) and how many cards were sold individually through their online shop. But then, they are Nvidia.
     
  8. DegustatoR

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    Their online store never was and never was supposed to be a major retail point. Disclosing this information wouldn't tell us anything.
     
  9. arandomguy

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    Off hand I can think of that being problematic on two fronts.

    First off in general it seems like the standard in the industry is to obfuscate overall shipment numbers even in discussions on a investor context. At least personally I'm not aware of ever any firm numbers being put out directly from first parties. They've only ever come from third party estimates such as JPR.

    The other issue is regardless of mining I think it's safe to say that reference cards this generation are likely "loss leaders" for PR purposes with respect to putting on a good review note and MSRP number. Really there's no way either Nvidia or AMD reference card can be both the cheapest yet also likely from a material cost stand point among the highest (if not the highest, possibly only eclipse by the extreme/specialty AiB variants). Even if they might not be strictly sold at a loss they're likely well under the profitability relative to the AiB sales, hence they were both likely always going to be very supply "managed" so to speak.

    Also just clarify I don't Nvidia will actually be cutting off AiBs shipping directly mining operations, more so that it'll likely be much more partnered essentially. I don't think people should confuse Nvidia's actions as actually being anti mining. The issue for them is likely they aren't feeling they are getting their share of the boom relative to the possible disruptions to their current core markets.
     
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  10. eastmen

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    That is a great deal.

    But yea my point is simply that a lot of the mining cards like the 580 , vega , 5600 series and even the 10 series from nvidia don't actually have much value outside of mining and every new card that releases like say the 6700 series or the 3060 or 3050 or whatever is next will only reduce their value more once mining crashes again.

    This is just nvidia getting good press from the gamers and selling old gpus or defective gpus to miners.

    Also 1559 is supposed to hit in june changing a lot about mining ether which will reduce profits so I am not sure how well this mining line up will do anywhay
     
  11. manux

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    Those 3060/3070/3080's miners are buying now have a ton of value in used market if crypto goes bust later this year. It can really tank sales of any new cards. On the other hand 3060 perhaps isn't something miners would buy anymore. And perhaps the higher end cards will also get replaced with something miners cannot use before bubble bursts. But maybe you don't remember how nvidia and amd sales tanked after last crypto bust? If I don't remember wrong nvidia had 3 really poor quarters and stock value tanked at that point.
     
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  12. Man from Atlantis

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  13. eastmen

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    Like I've said many times before , the 30 series cards will sell no mater what. When the 30 series came out many people sold 20 series cards to buy 30 series cards for both gaming and mining. So there really wont be a difference when those 30 series users go to upgrade.
     
  14. entity279

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    I think this might be the key. What would really be good for nvidia is if they could diminish the impact of the 2nd hand sales that will eventually come. And some positive PR never hurts. Seems too late but yeah, for watever they have past the 30 series, it might work

    Otherwise, there's no clear benefit to nVidia selling separate mining-specific chips.
    I fail to see how it would benefit gaming cards availability if this new chip is competing for the same wafers as the gaming/ai/compute ones.
    It's not impossible for these to be targeting a previous generation node, but I don't think it's at all likely
     
  15. DegustatoR

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    Three out of four are Turing based.
     
  16. manux

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    The benefit can be using chips not usable for gaming products. ETH mining is mainly memory bandwidth limited. Products that have too many broken units(tensor, tmu, cache, ray tracing unit,...), broken display, don't reach required clock speed,... could be recycled to mining products. Mining for eth doesn't need many of the things that are must for gaming. In essence salvage chips unusable for gaming to make mining products. It's pure profit if such chips exist in quantity. Otherwise those chips would have gone to garbage bin. Yields rarely are 100% so maybe there are defective chips that can be recycled to mining products.
     
  17. entity279

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    Sure.
    My hunch is that there wouldn't be large quantities of chips broken in this particular way.
     
  18. DegustatoR

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    There could be quite a lot of chips with broken RT cores and tensors in configs which make them unsuitable for other applications.
    This is also a stop gap measure most likely so they don't need a lot of them. If mining will persist till the next generation we'll probably see more radical measures.
     
  19. entity279

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    I wholeheartedly disagree. If there aren't enoungh of these mining products (or if they're priced wrongly) miners will hapilly continue to buy 3090 & 3080 & 3070s lilke they have up till now
     
  20. manux

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    Nvidia could spin kicker line of products to replace 3070,3080,3090 that have similar lock as 3060. I think they can prevent flashing old product bios/driver to kicker products if they like. It wouldn't be surprising to see the super or whatever lineup come out this year. The rumor is already out there from usual source

     
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