Microtransactions: the Future of Games? (LootBoxes and Gambling)

[Gubbi]

@Gubbi: didn't Eurogamer exactly mention that it is not like FM4...as you now don't get cars unlocked via winning a race? And that they feel this was changed to push the gamer into paying? Also the prices they mention are way higher than the 2.5 dollars you mention.

All cars are unlocked. The difference is that in previous Forza games you'd get a prize car when winning a series. You don't do that anymore, you have to buy your own cars.

What EG's Martin Robinson fails to mention is that most of the prize cars in previous games were crap, you'd never drive, and selling prize cars would only net you a symbolic sum of money, instead of half the price for purchased cars. So the difference is quite small

He also fail to mention any of the online aspects.

Weak review, IMO.

Edit: Interestingly Martin Woger from Eurogamer Germany gave it 10/10

Cheers

 

[Billy Idol]

Does anyone here actually own an xb1 and F5 as well as having owned F4 on the 360? Maybe they can clarify if it's all gotten worse. Maybe the op does since he started the thread?

Well, I just read articles out there, e.g.

http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/99944/Lotus+E21+costs+%A332.50+in+Forza+5/

 

[joker454]

Well, I just read articles out there, e.g.

http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/99944/Lotus+E21+costs+%A332.50+in+Forza+5/

Yeah but that doesn't say if it's worse than in F4, or just a perk they added. Like take this quote right from that link:

..if you wanted to shortcut the career to snag the faster cars quicker.

I mean that's cool, seems like an added feature but it's not clear if the game design was changed to push people to that. Maybe someone that actually owns F4 and F5 can clear that up.

 

[DrJay24]

Does anyone here actually own an xb1 and F5 as well as having owned F4 on the 360? Maybe they can clarify if it's all gotten worse. Maybe the op does since he started the thread?

It was a thread split. I have read the game is significantly harder, that would lead to more grinding.

 

[Gubbi]

I mean that's cool, seems like an added feature but it's not clear if the game design was changed to push people to that. Maybe someone that actually owns F4 and F5 can clear that up.

The per price seem to be much higher, like 4-8 times higher. In F4 6 tokens cost $5 and would buy you 2 1M+credit cars.

If anything that's pushing people away from the token shortcut. It's likely fewer people will go down the token route, but T10 will make more money from the ones that do.

Cheers

 

[joker454]

It was a thread split. I have read the game is significantly harder, that would lead to more grinding.

Interesting, I read the exact opposite where reviews say you can set the game to be as easy as you like or as hard as you like. That's typical Forza where you can set it to be arcade easy or hardcore sim. Or does F5 remove all driving aids and is hard difficultly only? That would be really surprising if they did, where did you read that it was significantly harder?

The per price seem to be much higher, like 4-8 times higher. In F4 6 tokens cost $5 and would buy you 2 1M+credit cars.

If anything that's pushing people away from the token shortcut. It's likely fewer people will go down the token route, but T10 will make more money from the ones that do.

Ah ok. So I guess I'm left once again to wonder what all the Outrage(tm) is about.

 

[BRiT]

Davros, feel free to start up a thread in RSPC or the Ethics forum if you seriously want to discuss that topic.

 

[Gubbi]

Ah ok. So I guess I'm left once again to wonder what all the Outrage(tm) is about.

You're not alone.

Cheers

 

[ERP]

I have F5 but it's the first Forza I've played so I can't compare. Certainly early in the game, in game money isn't scarce In any way, completing any series provides more that enough money to enter another series.
Perhaps later in the game that changes, but to this point I haven't felt any pressure to spend additional money.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Interesting, I read the exact opposite where reviews say you can set the game to be as easy as you like or as hard as you like.

I think this would be referring to the time required to unlock various cars, not the abject level of difficulty.

They added an XP booster, which is definitely a slippery slope when it comes to balancing, it's easy as a dev to give in to the temptation to make the game more grindy, in order to drive more XP booster sales. Hopefully they did what good dev's do, which is to focus balancing 100% for the non-boosted player.

I get this on Monday so can compare for myself! I've heard references to this being the best campaign yet, which certainly goes against the claims of it being overly grindy.

 

[Billy Idol]

You're not alone.

Cheers

Huh? But you posted, after reading the article I posted, that you see now that the prices are much higher in 5 compared to 4...although you first thought and posted that they would/should be the same...

So...there is(!) a difference, quite a hefty one in pricing! Poor Joker has to pay about 5 times the amount of money to get his dream car this time.

So, FM5 and FM4 are(!) different, no internet bla bla conspiracy needed...unless the guy who wrote the article is lying...but I have no interest in further discussion, as you guys again start to stealth personal attack...and Billy doesn't like this

Peace y'all!

 

[Nesh]

Turn 10 would have to be idiots to balance the game this way.

They are probably arent idiots but good businessmen that saw people will be paying out of frustration to get the cars

 

[Sigfried1977]

The problem is people will assume things like dumbed down loot, because it fits there pet theory.
In principle I have no issue with pay to advance as an option, as long as it doesn't affect the design. And really in this type of case it shouldn't, I see no reason to believe you would significantly increase revenue by making the upper tier cars unobtainable without paying.
In fact there is probably some sweet spot pricing for cars that gets significantly higher uptake.

It wasn't just a theory in Diablo 3's case. Loot drops in the auction house-devoid console versions are an awful lot better. And even if it really is just a theory it still does a lot of harm in a psychological sense because there's always this nagging feeling in the back of my head that things don't seem to work quite as they should. Case in point: I bought The Bard's Tale for my Android device. Seems just like the old action RPG from back in 2004 (or whenever that thing came out originally) at first glance. There are no timers holding you back or anything, but they do give you the ability to quicken your character's growth by spending some additional cash. Now leveling up is an awfully slow and tedious process in that game, and maybe it's always been that way too. In the end it doesn't really matter one way or the other, because I simply can't shake the feeling that the developers have tinkered with the original experience system in order to get me to part with some extra cash. It's completely killing my enjoyment of the title.

I applaud Eurogamer for taking a pro-consumer stance here, but unless that kind of writing is gonna manifest outside of editorials and in the types of articles where it actually matters (i.e. previews, reviews and interviews), I'm afraid it's still all talk.

 

[Billy Idol]

It wasn't just a theory in Diablo 3's case. Loot drops in the auction house-devoid console versions are an awful lot better. And even if it really is just a theory it still does a lot of harm in a psychological sense because there's always this nagging feeling in the back of my head that things don't seem to work quite as they should. Case in point: I bought The Bard's Tale for my Android device. Seems just like the old action RPG from back in 2004 (or whenever that thing came out originally) at first glance. There are no timers holding you back or anything, but they do give you the ability to quicken your character's growth by spending some additional cash. Now leveling up is an awfully slow and tedious process in that game, and maybe it's always been that way too. In the end it doesn't really matter one way or the other, because I simply can't shake the feeling that the developers have tinkered with the original experience system in order to get me to part with some extra cash. It's completely killing my enjoyment of the title.

Good post. +1

 

[Gubbi]

They are probably arent idiots but good businessmen that saw people will be paying out of frustration to get the cars

A quick look at the Forza Motorsports forum reveals that very few is annoyed by this. The issues that do annoy people are:
1. Lack of cars
2. Lack of tracks, in particular favourites like Suzuka and Nurburgrung.
3. Day one DLC pack, which is publishers way of neutering reselling.

Cheers

 

[baten]

It's a free world and a free market, or so it's supposed to be.

You dont like microtransactions - just dont support them with your wallet. I know I dont and never will.

But it's no use complaining. Publishers try to make some money, if they succeed then no amount of bickering will make them stop, since it means there are enough people that find the proposition valuable.

 

[Billy Idol]

It's a free world and a free market, or so it's supposed to be.

You dont like microtransactions - just dont support them with your wallet. I know I dont and never will.

But it's no use complaining. Publishers try to make some money, if they succeed then no amount of bickering will make them stop, since it means there are enough people that find the proposition valuable.

That is a valid standpoint. People can vote with their wallet. And I do, by not buying Forza 5, although I initially wanted to buy all available exclusives.

On the other hand...this is the interwebz time...besides porn, moaning about unimportant stuff accounts for rougly the other 50% usage...so we need to moan!

Btw, in an interview I watched couple of month ago, Cervat Yerli said that Crytek will go full force towards free3play + microtransactions as this is (in his opinion) the only way in future. In that time, he said that Crisis 3 would be the last pay to play title by Crytek. Now with Ryse, I see that this is in-between...so I really wonder if the next Crytek game will be f2p with microtransactions?!?

 

[Nesh]

It's a free world and a free market, or so it's supposed to be.

You dont like microtransactions - just dont support them with your wallet. I know I dont and never will.

But it's no use complaining. Publishers try to make some money, if they succeed then no amount of bickering will make them stop, since it means there are enough people that find the proposition valuable.

I want to laugh everytime I hear the words "free market"

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's a free world and a free market, or so it's supposed to be.

You dont like microtransactions - just dont support them with your wallet. I know I dont and never will.

But it's no use complaining. Publishers try to make some money, if they succeed then no amount of bickering will make them stop, since it means there are enough people that find the proposition valuable.

That's true, but doesn't change the threat to gaming culture. If the market changes to microtransactions and nickle-and-diming, game principles that gamers have known and enjoyed will be destroyed and replaced with a different model, meaning an end to gamers' hobby as we know it. Gamers will either have to adapt and accept the new way, or go find something else to do. But faced with that prospect, it's fair (and right in a free-market with free-speech culture) to express one's reservations with this model in a hope to secure a safe future for one's interests.

If you don't acknowledge that, you don't belong on a discussion forum. Every opinion post ever can pretty much boil down to, "if you don't like it, just ignore it." Just don't buy the game, don't buy the console, don't by the product or service. And history shows that complaints can cause change for the better, certainly more than just being quiet and hoping things will improve.

If those advocating XB1's always on policy were more vocal about it, perhaps those being noisiest to the contrary wouldn't have won through?

 

[dobwal]

I have used microtransactions before and my use is basically tied to how much I really enjoy the title. If I really like the game, I don't mind the grind of having to earn items or currency.

But if I find i like a title but not enough to grind, I will buy a weapon or stat to actually allow me to move through the title quicker, which honestly I find pretty much the opposite of what a game should encourage. More profits through mediocrity.