Microttansactions is yet another phenomenon of the irrationality of the economic system and the assumption that profitability is correlated always with better servitude towards the market's needs. Limiting the consumer's options and controlling how the consumer can satisfy his needs, may increase business profitability but its no different than a cartel and market manipulation. The gamer satisfies eventually a need but at additional cost and lost of independence. The appearance of microtransactions in full games and the likely tendency to invest more on F2P games instead of full fledged games is a trend that must be stopped no matter what is the narrow minded economic benefit brought as an an argument to excuse it
Microtransactions: the Future of Games? (LootBoxes and Gambling)
It is good for them to explore. Like many other old systems they have tried, if we don't like the new approaches, they most likely won't survive.
In a sense, they should not rush in with a half baked implementation in launch games. They may end up hurting themselves rather than the consumers.
In a sense, they should not rush in with a half baked implementation in launch games. They may end up hurting themselves rather than the consumers.
I dunno, dlc and micro transactions don't bug me I guess partly because I haven't paid $60 for a game in years (usually more like $5 to $15) so spending a few extra bucks doesn't bother me as games are already so cheap to begin with, and partly because I don't have anywhere near the time others have to grind through games so having the option to pay to unlock stuff is kinda cool. In the case of car games I've never been able to get the top cars, I simply don't play enough to ever unlock them the normal way so having that option to pay to unlock them for me would be cool, I'd actually get to drive them for a change.
Billy Idol
Legend
But you'd pay 10 to unlock a car ingame...and then some money if you want it immediately...or still grind to get the ingame credits.
Isn't this a bit much?
Unfortunately it works cause of the 'whales' (Im not sure if thats the right term) the vast majority of ppl pay nothing or very little but theres some that will buy everything. Easily adding up to > $1000 on a title
I dont really care about it on freemiunum titles. But if you buy a title you shouldnt have to pay extra, even a 99c title and esp not a $60 title
I dont really care about it on freemiunum titles. But if you buy a title you shouldnt have to pay extra, even a 99c title and esp not a $60 title
Well I don't "grind" in gaming at all anymore, once the fun is gone I delete a game and move on. Grinding is not for me. Is there a clear and accurate description of how the micro transactions work in Forza 5? The internet claims it's forced $10/car and that they force you to pay for dlc and force you to pay again to unlock cars. But given the incomparable amount of fud, lies and deception being spread this year about anything related to Microsoft I'm just not inclined to believe anything anymore until I can verify it myself. I presume you can buy dlc and use that content as normal, unlocking cars in the typical way games have done unlocks for ages, but now have to option to pay to speed up the car unlock process correct? If so I have nothing against that. I've never been able to play the top cars in Forza so that seems like a good option no? If you're the grind type gamer then you shouldn't be affected, just grind away like normal. Or is that not how it works in Forza 5 and they are actually forcing gamers to pay for dlc and forcing them to pay to unlock specific cars in that dlc? If that's actually true then that wouldn't be cool.
The majority of people are stupid, or easily manipulated at the least. They are using money fleecing tactics because they work, and it only perpetuates the old saying of "There's a sucker born every minute!"
I wonder how many here would try to rationalize it? It doesn't matter how acceptable it is, especially if the majority are blind to it. It means those who have some common sense lose out in the process.
But I guess that's the price we pay huh? The hardcore guys ask for eye-bleeding graphics, creatives and business-types both get ahead of themselves in the process of making AAA games, and everything will come crashing down unless something disruptive stops things from getting worse.
I wonder how many here would try to rationalize it? It doesn't matter how acceptable it is, especially if the majority are blind to it. It means those who have some common sense lose out in the process.
But I guess that's the price we pay huh? The hardcore guys ask for eye-bleeding graphics, creatives and business-types both get ahead of themselves in the process of making AAA games, and everything will come crashing down unless something disruptive stops things from getting worse.
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Haven't played Forza 5 (because Microsoft RUINED Christmas by not releasing in Scandinavia), I'd expect it to be exactly like Forza 4, where the top tier cars cost 3 tokens equivalent to $2.50.
Racing in the top tiers in F4 would net your around 1,000,000 credits per hour played (R1 class with Pro AI, few assists). The most expensive car in F4 was 10 mega credits.
Eventually you end up with more credits that you know what to do with, - unless you want to own every car in the game.
Cheers
Nobody is forcing people to buy DLC, and all cars in the game can be bought with in game credits. As you said, fear, uncertainty, doubt
If driving is perceived as "a grind", people are clearly playing the wrong game.
Cheers
It's a matter of how much driving you have to do. 'Grind' in any game is where the amount of 'work' is disproportionate to the reward, based on the player's interest in advancing. In racing simulators with garages, players want to win and own various cars. That requires an amount of racing and winning some point system. If the number of races is astronomical making the car acquisition rare, this'll be described as grind. And fairly so. Any entertainment, no matter how fun and exciting, can become dull and disinteresting with repeated, numerous replays ad nauseum. Successful game development has just the right amount of reward structure in place, that there's a degree of effort leading to satisfaction on a reward, but not too much that the effort needed to acquire the progress starts to become tedious. This threshold will vary by players. Someone not particularly interested in collecting virtual cars won't mind having to race lots to win them, because the car is just a nice bonus. For those who do want to own lots of cars, the racing can become a barrier to that, and if deemed too significant, the racing itself will become frustrating. I point to games like Final Fantasy with its special weapons, some with some pretty extreme requirements. 100 battles in the same area against the same few foes without getting struck by random lightning, or whatever it was, turned the joy of the combat within the story to a grind for myself.
The concern here is where the threshold lies. Is it just a matter of providing a short-cut for those willing to spend, or is it a matter of pushing desirable game content (on the disc already purchased at full price...) out of realistic reach for normal gameplay and requiring either substantially more playtime or an extra, substantial payment.
No-one should be excusing this DLC as just a convenient shortcut, nor crucifying T10 for scamming gamers, without the details of the threshold and how it compares to previous games.
Yeah, did they maybe increase the amount of playing needed to unlock cars by ten fold or something unreasonable? I never played Diablo 3, but the musings I heard were that the in game loot was purposely dumbed down effectively forcing people to go spend money at the auction house. Does Forza 5 do something similar to where you now have to play unreasonable amounts (compared to previous games) to be able to unlock the same stuff and hence are pushed to spend real money to unlock stuff? If that's the case then I can understand people being upset, but I don't want to trust a "fact confirmed bro" tweet by l33tm$h8r, I'd prefer to hear about it from someone here that actually owns the console and has actually played the game before jumping all over Turn 10.
The problem is people will assume things like dumbed down loot, because it fits there pet theory.
In principle I have no issue with pay to advance as an option, as long as it doesn't affect the design. And really in this type of case it shouldn't, I see no reason to believe you would significantly increase revenue by making the upper tier cars unobtainable without paying.
In fact there is probably some sweet spot pricing for cars that gets significantly higher uptake.
In principle I have no issue with pay to advance as an option, as long as it doesn't affect the design. And really in this type of case it shouldn't, I see no reason to believe you would significantly increase revenue by making the upper tier cars unobtainable without paying.
In fact there is probably some sweet spot pricing for cars that gets significantly higher uptake.
In previous Forzas, if you just followed natural progression from one race class to the next (or career mode in F3/4) you'd never be short on cash.
Most people playing racing sims don't race to acquire more cars. They typically race to win, race to beat their friends, race to improve or race to acquire specific cars; Muscle cars, rice rockets or if you are swedish, Volvo 240/242s.
Forza has always been very easy to make credits in if that was your goal. Much more so than Gran Turismo.
Why play a racing sim if you don't like racing ? No two races are ever the same, especially not when you go online.
And again, Forza has always been easy to make money in, in F5 your avatar will make you money when you're not playing.
AFAICT, it is exactly like Forza 4. If people wants to spend $2.5 to get the Audi R18 out of the gate, let 'em. For the rest, play the 10-12 hours to progress to R1 and buy it with in-game credits.
Where Forza 5 has regressed is in not being able to gift cars and tunes anymore.
Cheers
Billy Idol
Legend
Of course the players like racing. The question is 'how much'? Let's say someone enjoys it enough to play a couple of hours a week (for the first month or two), but also plays some COD and other games in the rest of their 8 hours per week gaming time. They then see an exotic car they want. To get this car would require 16 hours of normal racing. They decide to spend a couple of weeks racing and saving up for it, forgoing COD and others. The game is enjoyable enough for two weeks, perhaps, although they may then take a break and play other games until they have given Forza a rest.
But what if the car they want has been priced up to requiring 50 hours of racing to get? They don't enjoy the racing that much, so either have to endure lots of racing when they'd rather be playing COD (grind), or they have to go without that car for ages.
I don't think there's any such thing as the perfectly enjoyable game that is always fun no matter how much you play it, unless you are of a very particular mindset. There are certain games I revisit more often than others but none that I can play constantly for hours and hours on end, which is what game grind requires. Other gamers, like some Diablo players and StarCraft players, can play the same game seemingly forever, but that's not the mindset of the typical gamer (otherwise attach rates would be tiny
).If that's the case, there's no problem and the DLC option is a bonus. It just needs some clarification where I guess most journalism would rather be sensationalist.
I think you misunderstand. The DLC consists of extra cars and maps you buy as accessories to the game for real $$. Once bought you have to buy the cars in the game with in-game credits, - or tokens acquired by paying real $$. It's the token buying that is the shortcut.
I don't mind the car DLC, its a way to keep the game up to date with new cars/up-to-date race-series and "new" classic cars. I only bought the ALMS february car pack (primarily for the Mazda 787b), foregoing all other car packs for F4.
I hate map packs, playing online, finishing a race only to find the next race is on a track you don't have and get kicked out is just so fucking lame. Map packs need to be free.
Cheers
Billy Idol
Legend
@Gubbi: didn't Eurogamer exactly mention that it is not like FM4...as you now don't get cars unlocked via winning a race? And that they feel this was changed to push the gamer into paying? Also the prices they mention are way higher than the 2.5 dollars you mention.
Turn 10 would have to be idiots to balance the game this way. In previous Forza games, if you won a series (on normal), you'd have more than enough money to buy a car for the next class and upgrade+tune it. Of course you can be an idiot and buy four entry class cars and be left without a dime once you progress to the next tier, but that's you being a moron, not Turn 10's fault.
If you don't win the first series on normal, chances are you won't enjoy the higher class, because things get harder not easier.
A good driver will earn *a lot* more. You get bonuses for harder AI options and disabling assists. A capable driver will make 2-2.5 x the amount on default/normal per race. Of course winning races also adds a lot of credits.
Cheers