Uhh... how would running a JavaScript benchmark on a PC have any relationship with a tablet/phone implementation? Even if whatever browser you're running on whatever OS doesn't use multithreaded JavaScript, that says nothing about a different browser or different OS...
And regardless of what Apple thinks, stylus' are a big deal. You can definitely do significant "real work" on tablet using a stylus, especially if you're an artist
So I'm going to have to tell my author friend who uses a 11" ultraportable that her screen is just too small? She can't get any work done anymore? She's seriously considering the Pro with the keyboard cover by the way. I also have a photographer friend who wants to use it with lightroom (which we saw demoed in the announce presser) so she can photograph tethered when doing photo shoots and such.
Just because _you_ might not be able to get work done on a small screen, don't imply no one can.
Would fit just fine in my pocket: http://www.scottevest.com/v3_store/Revolution-Jacket.shtml
I've carried an ipad, a kindle, and a kindle DX simultaneously in this jacket, it's one of the best I've had.
Are those Scottie vests comfortable when loaded with devices?
Seems like they'd be stuffy and the uneven weight (unless you have two similar devices on each side) would feel weird.
Also wonder about the parts of the vest with the device swinging around and hitting a wall or something.
Seems like they'd be stuffy and the uneven weight (unless you have two similar devices on each side) would feel weird.
Also wonder about the parts of the vest with the device swinging around and hitting a wall or something.
Real Work = applications that require a powerful computer with a comfortable sized screen...CAD/CAM, video editing etc.
Word, Excel and PowerPoint is not real work...because they do not need powerful computers to run eg they could run on Atom based Netbooks with TINY 10" 16:9 screens. Nobody in their right mind would buy a powerful $1000 computer so they could run spreadsheets on the go unless they have lots of money to burn or are part of the niche high priced electronic gadget geeks club....lol.
As for being pocketable...um no...just because you are a weird nerd who carries a bunch of crap electronics like some shady trenchcoat salesman doesn't mean niche = mainstream. I remember back in the day many of the SONY fanboys claimed they used the PSP to browse the internet...lol. Yeah if you're desperate and could put up with the slow ass crap browser that runs out of memory ALL THE TIME then sure it's a great internet browsing device that's perfectly useable everyday...lol.
As I said why do you need the powerful Pro Surface instead of the RT to do stupid sh*t like spreadsheets and wordprocessing? So your author friends want to create documents that have embedded molecular modeling?
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Those notebooks are 4:3 screens...BIG DIFFERENCE. A 10" 16:9 screen is TINY for any type of real work. Do you actually do any type of REAL WORK on a 10" 16:9 screen? Higher resolution doesn't help much at all because everything gets smaller even though you could fit more on the TINY little widescreen. It works well for media consumption but not for REAL WORK.
When did notebooks and Ultrabooks become not portable?
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I don't see the diffrence between a 10.6 inch screen and a 13.3 inch screen. Your not going to suddenly be able to do things on one that you can't do on the other.
Don'tforget that unlike the ipad the surface has a micro hdmi port so you can easily plug it into almost any modern tv and suddenly while on vacation or at work or where you might fin yourself , you suddenly have a large screen.
I get alot of real work done on my 13 inch laptop and i'm sure i will get the same work done on my 10.6 inch surface pro.
I'd be able to bring my surface with me alot more often then bringing a mac air / pro and a ipad .
I want to be able to edit video while i'm away from home. But I guess i'm only allowed to do stupid shit.
If it was an apple product I'm sure it be the second coming though.
The Pro is a fantastic design but its purpose is unclear...kind of like a solution looking for a problem. As for editing video....I could edit video on my friggen iPhone...doesn't mean I'd want to pretend it's a great productive user experience. Real video editing work is done on large screens not little 10" widescreens unless you don't care about video quality...lol.
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I'm not sure why you are saying this. ITs purpose is very clear. Its a multipurpose device. It allows someone to get the portability of the ipad form factor but the usability of a windows 8 pc .
Jack of all trades Master of none...
The question is beyond a handful of geeks who will buy it?
Its been posted here before.
1) Companys
2) Schools
3) Anyone who wants more than a toy of a tablet.
YOu do understand that having multiple products is a good thing and if people want more of an ipad they can go with the RT and if they want a more powerful full featured device they can go with the pro model.
Its not either or . The school district I work at will be ordering 50-60 of these when they finaly release. A few of my other friends at a couple diffrent companys in the city will be ordering some of these to test and might migrate to them over the ipad .
For a company you can greatly reduce the costs of your employees. Instead of needing a desktop pc , a laptop , and a tablet you can replace all 3 with a single device. A device that you lease for 2 or 3 years and then you replace with another single device. Reduces inventory , reduces staff training both in it and on the user side for multpile devices .
There are alot of savings to be had by switching to one device. Esp a device that doesn't comprimise on what it can do .
But it IS a compromise device....
It's expensive if all you want is a tablet for media consumption.
It's handicapped if you want a laptop or ultrabook with a large screen to do "workstation" type stuff on the go.
It's an expensive desktop replacement that requires all kinds of additional stuff to replace the desktop.. monitor, keyboard, external hardrives, external Blu-ray burners etc.
Wow, nice personal attacks. You might want to back off a little with those...
By your example, I could keep changing the definition, like you have been doing, until the only computer that could be used for "Real Work" is a $10000 workstation. Someone points out they can do video editing, and suddenly video editing is no longer good enough. I'm sorry, dude, but CAD/CAM is a hell of a lot more niche than the "high priced electronic gadget geeks club", which contains, as far as I can tell, the over 200 million apple iphone/ipad customers.
The truth is, real work is whatever the user believes it is. The Pro has the performance of a ultrabook, with a significantly higher screen resolution than an ultrabook. It can, therefore, be used for any task that an ultrabook could, as well as for the more normal tablet consumption tasks. So instead of paying $1K for an ultrabook + $600 for an ipad, you get both for ~1K, and you can have it with you wherever you go. I'm not sure why you don't understand this.
I guarantee you that the surface pro will completely replace the work computer for pretty much all the program managers here at microsoft. They'll have a dock at their desk with a bigger monitor (which they have today anyway), and they'll be good to go. They currently carry around $2K 11"-13" ultralights, the surface pro is a _perfect_ replacement for them, with better performance, higher resolution, and probably around half the price.
For dev and test, probably not, but then we're the folks that buy $5000 development machines, any laptop that could fulfill our requirements would need a forklift.
So the customer base is only the small niche of the mobile IT worker (the folks that have a lot of meetings). That's what... only about 15-20 million people in the US? The RT tablet is nice, but it won't run MS Project, Visio, Photoshop, Lightroom or any one of millions of desktop only apps. The Pro will.
The Scottevests are some of the best gadget carriers I've used. they're designed so the weight of the gadgets are distributed, they're a lot more comfortable than carrying a laptop or messenger bag. Especially useful for travelling. Generally I only carry my kindle with me, and it's weight is essentially nil. The ipad is noticeably heavier, but still manageable for long term carrying. My wife carries hers in a shoulder bag, and that thing gets uncomfortable really fast.
Almost no swinging problems, most of the time people have no idea I even have an ipad on me, I've had a number of people go "Where the hell did that come from???" when I've pulled the ipad out to do something with it.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Sure. That's Windows RT territory. But you can do all the stuff Windows RT can do AND...
The only handicap here is that the keyboard isn't attached, making it difficult to use in your lap with the keyboard. Then again, handwriting recognition is superb, and anyone that hand write with a pen will be right at home entering text. Assuming they don't want to use the onscreen keyboard.
Size of the screen may or may not matter depending on the task at hand, but it isn't as if people weren't already getting "real" work done on 10-11 inch screens.
AND it can do...
What? If it's a desktop replacement. As in replacing a desktop a person might have at home, then you already have a monitor, keyboard and mouse. And even if you didn't, if you have any TV sold within the past 5 years, I'm pretty sure it supports 1080p and HDMI. Although perhaps someone could only afford a 720p monitor.
External HDDs are fairly common, and same goes for external optical drives.
Lets try this again.
Here's some common scenarios with people I know personally and through business contacts.
A) Owns a Desktop + Laptop + iPad.
B) Owns a Desktop + iPad
C) Owns a Laptop + iPad.
They can't just own an iPad because they require a device that can do more than just light applications and media consumption for "real work." Considering many of those in group C with laptops have ultra books, the Surface Pro has similar computing abilities.
So, the theory goes that in theory it could become.
A) Replace all devices with Surface Pro. Or replace laptop and iPad with Surface Pro.
B) Replace all devices with Surface Pro.
C) Replace all devices with Surface Pro.
Will that work for everyone? Probably not. But I know a significant number of people that will be trying out a Surface Pro with the intention to potentially get rid of multiple devices. It's unlikely anyone I know with an Apple desktop or laptop will convert. And some may not want to switch away from their iPad. That's fine, those are all great devices.
But there's quite a few that are seriously considering this. Especially group A and C where there is a huge desire to NOT have to take a Laptop and an iPad around whenever they are traveling.
MS may get a few people to switch from an iPad to WinRT, but I don't see many switching there.
MS will probably get quite a few people to switch from Android to WinRT, but that doesn't matter much. Android slate marketshare is tiny compared to the iPad.
MS will probably get more converts among those looking to consolidate their mobile devices into one device. As well as people that are looking at slates but haven't pulled the trigger on either an iPad or Android slate due to their lack of ability to do much beyond media consumption.
Regards,
SB
Yes, desktop browsers are less aggressive wrt multi-threading than embedded ones and embedded browsers are very good at extracting parallelism in JS scripts that don't have any explicit parallelism. I just hope someone will port these browsers to desktops, that will make so many people happy.
But there are $200 tablets that play videos just fine and allow you to read books. So even the higher end andriod and ipads are expensive if you want a tablet for just media consumption. The ipads also get quite expensive going up to what 700 for a 64 gig ?
http://store.apple.com/us/buy/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad/new_ipad
The surface pro will most likely pop you in with 64 gigs at $800. So pricing is not that far off.
And a cheap laptop will do more than an ipad ccan
The majority of ultra books have small screens and popular laptops like the mac air have a screen that is only .4 inches bigger. If you want to do workstation type stuff on the go , this offers a much better form factor for travel over even an ultrabook and if you plan on doing more than work on the go , it requires the use of one device vs multiple devices.
And yet its so much more portable than carying a desktop with monitor , keyboard , external hardrives and bluray burnes every where you go.
You just want to poke the negatives about everything on the surface. You refuse to look at the plus sides .
People can be negative about the ipad or a nook or a cell phone. It doesn't stop others from seeing the value of such a device.
I see a laptop replacement for my ultra portable 13 inch dm3z thats lighter , will get better battery life , have a better screen. I see a replacement for my touch pro running ice cream sandwich . I see a single device that will replace two devices , one of similar size and one much larger from my packing . So now i will be able to worry less about these devices and plugs and enjoy my time traveling much more .
I know at work i can now carry around a 2lb tablet that will let me do everything i need to do vs carying around a 3lb laptop. When i'm under desks fixing wiring i can put notes on the tablet using the pen , when I walk into a class room i can wirelessly connect to the smart board and so teachers new features or update the smart boards software.
I see a ton of usage that an ipad/andriod tablet or a laptop can't do or can't do as well as the surface pro.
I want to get one , but i'm loosing a couple lbs a month with a goal of dropping a total of 60lbs in the next year. So i will most likely go from a xxxl to a xxl and i don't want to waste $200 bucks on a jacket that wont fit in a year. I'm happy to hear it works so well but how heavy is the jacket. I mean in terms of keeping warm. is it on the level of a leather jacket or a fleece or what ?
Mintmaster
Veteran
Where's your evidence for that? It can even be faster (I know, that's FP, but still). The consensus is that A9 is ~20% faster than A8, and Scorpion lies between the two. It's not 60% faster, which is what would be needed to explain that data if you assume that the second core is completely idle.
I found a chart with both versions of the One X:My understanding is that both One X and One S exist in both Krait and quad A9 variants so one has to be careful when reading results. I'm completely lost at deciphering which is using what
http://cdn.androidadvices.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Smart-Phones-Benchmark-Results.png
I read it fine. You're making an implicit assumption that Intel has tapped out all optimizations while Google has lots of room left, and you have no basis for doing so. We'll see what happens when Linaro's work gets integrated and verified, and Intel/MS improves as well, but for the time being let's keep our assumptions unbiased.
Of course waiting will give us the final answer, but this entire thread is about speculation. You're not going to predict trends for the future very well if you wait for everything to play out...
No laptop is suitable for that type of work too. You're digging a bit of a hole here IMHO... for the "real work" that you describe I happily use my 30" + powerful desktop. When I'm using a mobile device I want it to be fairly, well, mobile. The "in between" of large-ish laptops is actually the *least* interesting form factor for me. I doubt I'll ever purchase anything larger than 13" again for instance, and 11" or smaller is better.
The new form factor/configuration with the Surface Pro and its well-implemented stylus support is the first solution to comprehensively account for the interfacing needs of the user with regard to desktop focused software. At the same time, Apple and other mobile focused developers are expanding the productivity of their mobile applications.
My video editing work mainly consists of arranging clips, mixing in stills, and adding in titles and transitions, and iMovie on my iPhone and iPad gives me more than enough power and convenience for that. If the market for people who need more than that general level of productivity from these kind of apps is large enough, the Surface Pro may kick off a market that could thrive.
My video editing work mainly consists of arranging clips, mixing in stills, and adding in titles and transitions, and iMovie on my iPhone and iPad gives me more than enough power and convenience for that. If the market for people who need more than that general level of productivity from these kind of apps is large enough, the Surface Pro may kick off a market that could thrive.
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