Learning about the PS3 and 360's architecture

[JimBlob]

Hi guys, first post here so hello to all.

I'm a long time gamer and gaming enthusiast and currently enjoying the huge variety of great games on offer in this current gen. I've always taken a casual interest in console hardware, but never fully understood the ins and outs. However, recently I decided that I would like to better understand how these current systems actually work and what they might be potentially capable of in the next few years?

I realise there's probably plenty of this info in these forums but there seems to be bits n pieces everywhere and I'm not keen on reading through thousands of posts to find the good stuff. So basically does anyone have any links to any relevant articles or any forum threads/posts that would be useful?

 

[Betanumerical]

I hope your already know some basic cpu architecture / gpu architecture or else you are going to get confused quickly, but anyway.

XBOX360.

ATI Xenos: Xbox 360 Graphics Demystified B3D Article
Inside the Xbox 360, part I: procedural synthesis and dynamic worlds ArsTechnia Article
Inside the Xbox 360, Part II: the Xenon CPU ArsTechnia Article
Xenos Wiki Article
Xenon (processor) Wiki Artcile

PS3.

Introducing the IBM/Sony/Toshiba Cell Processor — Part I: the SIMD processing units ArsTechnia Article
Introducing the IBM/Sony/Toshiba Cell Processor -- Part II: The Cell Architecture ArsTechnia Article
RSX 'Reality Synthesizer' Wiki Article
Cell (microprocessor) Wiki Article

 

[jlippo]

IBM has very nice handbook about Cell processor.
It now has the information about PowerXCell 8i as well.

 

[assurdum]

However about ps3 RSX not exist an official document of specs release by sony, so the most of the informations we have regard the 'normal' pc rsx. It's an aspect who have to specify only to be 'honest'.

 

[Refreshment]

For some time i shared a similar questions as the original poster but in a more general sense. I mean how real time CG rendering works in general?

I would appreciate if someone lends a hand and point me to some links that explain the ultra basics, some starting point where to take off. I had tried in the past but always ended on articles that referenced stuff that i didn't understand. Maybe something along the lines of the "Dummies Series"

There's no need to get too in depth, just general knowledge to at least know what goes around in an advanced discussion. I know this isn't an overnight thing but like i said: a good starting point.

For example some recent stuff i was intrigued that i didn't found articles or couldn't grasp what was being explained are topics like: Tile rendering, difference between engine and renderer, why exactly the 360 its designed to output 720P and why it gets free AA when tiling, to name a few.

But for now i'll settle with some links explaining the basics of how things work.

 

[liolio]

You should look at this presentation:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-software-network-at-siggraph-2008
It is interesting in the way that give comprehensive view of the differents stages of a modern 3D pipeline.

 

[Betanumerical]

For example some recent stuff i was intrigued that i didn't found articles or couldn't grasp what was being explained are topics like: Tile rendering, difference between engine and renderer, why exactly the 360 its designed to output 720P and why it gets free AA when tiling, to name a few.

But for now i'll settle with some links explaining the basics of how things work.

AA ain't free on the 360, but I will let someone else explain that better.

 

[JimBlob]

Thanks for the above links guys. Some of those articles will require more than one read through I'm sure But it's all very interesting and a good start.

For some time i shared a similar questions as the original poster but in a more general sense. I mean how real time CG rendering works in general?

I would appreciate if someone lends a hand and point me to some links that explain the ultra basics, some starting point where to take off. I had tried in the past but always ended on articles that referenced stuff that i didn't understand. Maybe something along the lines of the "Dummies Series"

There's no need to get too in depth, just general knowledge to at least know what goes around in an advanced discussion. I know this isn't an overnight thing but like i said: a good starting point.

For example some recent stuff i was intrigued that i didn't found articles or couldn't grasp what was being explained are topics like: Tile rendering, difference between engine and renderer, why exactly the 360 its designed to output 720P and why it gets free AA when tiling, to name a few.

But for now i'll settle with some links explaining the basics of how things work.

I'm kind of in the same boat to be honest. I mean, reading through the CELL handbook above, I understand some of it but it's slow going when I have to lookup much of the terminology before I can move on. It all gets quite overwhelming. I guess the big questions I need answering about CELL is what it will mean for games and how it could affect future releases. There's obviously a lot of untapped potential in the CELL but what can it bring to games in terms of actual new and exciting stuff, or is it just a more efficient way to do what we already do in games?

I've also been reading the B3D article about 3D Engines, which is very interesting. Does anyone know if it's strictly true that anyone making games for 360 uses Direct3D as it's API where PS3 games use OpenGL? And if this is part of the problem for devs making cross platform games? Or, is it more a case that the devs are making their own?

 

[liolio]

I asked too a while ago about the API used in the PS3, look in this thread
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=49969

For the 360 I think it must be custom too close enough to directX (for convinience).
I wonder if devs have the same whole acces to the low level API on the 360 as on the PS3.

 

[galopin]

I asked too a while ago about the API used in the PS3, look in this thread
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=49969

For the 360 I think it must be custom too close enough to directX (for convinience).
I wonder if devs have the same whole acces to the low level API on the 360 as on the PS3.

Basic API on 360 is really similar to D3D, but we can use almost nothing of it and use another one that is nearer to the metal than the high level one. In your engine, almost no PC D3D code path wer use in latest build

PS3 is'nt OpenGL anymore since a long time, it's GCM that is really similar to D3D API.

 

[jonabbey]

Does GCM provide at least enough abstraction that Sony would be able to replace the RSX with another graphics chip in PS4 and still have some chance of running GCM code against a different chip?

I'm assuming PS4 will feature an enhanced Cell chip, and I assume software compatibility will be there, but I have no idea whether e.g., Nvidia G80 series chips are command-compatible with earlier Nvidia models.

Is GCM responsible for generating the command codes for the RSX? How thin a layer is it?

 

[galopin]

GCM is more a collection of Macro that output DWORD in the RSX command buffer than a real library. Just some call are real function to hide OS specific code like the rendering of the HUD overlays.

So except a rebuild with a proxy GCM to the new API, no way

 

[jonabbey]

GCM is more a collection of Macro that output DWORD in the RSX command buffer than a real library. Just some call are real function to hide OS specific code like the rendering of the HUD overlays.

So except a rebuild with a proxy GCM to the new API, no way

Oh, how unfortunate.

I suppose a PS4 could have an RSX command path rewrite layer in the hypervisor, or some such, though.