Larger 4k displays with RGB subpixel space?
- Thread starter Mize
- Start date
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Can the MacBook not handle BGR? I have a 4K monitor that uses BGR subpixel arrangement (LG panel) and it has no problems in either Win 8.1 or Win 10 once I calibrated clear type (can be configured per monitor). That's paired with a 1600p monitor that is RGB, but in portrait orientation.
Regards,
SB
Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
http://www.overclock.net/t/1515634/4k-uhd-monitors-subpixel-layout-and-blurry-text
Are some examples. Rotation of monitors (portrait vs. landscape) can also cause issues when rendering text. Cleartype deals with that equally as well as the RGB/BGR differences and isn't any more difficult than configuring an RGB monitor contrary to what OP in that thread says. Also deals with differences due to CRT vs LCD subpixel arrangements. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering for some examples)
You can turn an RGB display into a BGR display just but turning it upside down.
Regards,
SB
And why do the bgr monitors cost less on average? Is it harder to assemble the panel? Must the workers be hanging upside down to make the rgb versions?
My guess is the panel makers deliver a panel with certain mechanical, power and signal connections and then the monitor makers design the cheapest possible enclosure with support electronics (power, USB hub, connectors).
I developed an industrial controller and, in accommodating the bare touch panel, I'm certain we never thought about the subpixels as the challenges posed by simply securing it mechanically were absurd. I imagine it was intended to be glued but we needed repairability.
Like I said, is possible that it's simply more economical, based on panel layout, to mount it upside down. Since literally nobody includes subpixel space in their specs it doesn't seem to hurt sales and most computers can correct for it (windows).
Imagine the panel manufacturer put most of the connections on the top, then mounting it upside down minimizes wire runs.
Imagine the panel manufacturer put most of the connections on the top, then mounting it upside down minimizes wire runs.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I get the feeling that with Jobs no longer at the helm, Apple's upper management and board of directors just doesn't care that much about general computing and just keep it because it's there and an established part of Apple's history.
Computing was Job's baby so to speak and was kept alive and succeeded purely because of him, IMO. And due to that it got premium treatment on par or exceeding any other product within the company while he was in charge. Even when it was outclassed in revenue and profit generation by other divisions within the company. First the iPod and then later the iPhone.
Currently, general computing (Mac) takes a rather significant back seat to the more profitable iOS hardware products. Or at least that's how it looks like from outside looking in.
Regards,
SB
Computing was Job's baby so to speak and was kept alive and succeeded purely because of him, IMO. And due to that it got premium treatment on par or exceeding any other product within the company while he was in charge. Even when it was outclassed in revenue and profit generation by other divisions within the company. First the iPod and then later the iPhone.
Currently, general computing (Mac) takes a rather significant back seat to the more profitable iOS hardware products. Or at least that's how it looks like from outside looking in.
Regards,
SB
Blazkowicz
Legend
I don't know about iOS, but I thought Apple/Mac OS doesn't use subpixel rendering? i.e. that they went for grayscale, accurate but blurry text on standard ppi monitors. Well, perhaps that was in older times but I expect you can turn off subpixel rendering as of now if you want.
With a high ppi monitor you don't quite need subpixel rendering, as a combination of classic anti-aliasing and very high resolution makes it perfect. Although if you go with a really large monitor you don't quite get a high dpi. There's 43" 3840x2160 on the market (!), which is around 102 ppi. Alright that's the Dell one, also as Philips and some other brand.. I did read about it, no bad things were said..
4K 32" is 137.68 ppi (courtesy of a simple ppi calculator on the web). I guess it's not too bad with grayscale anti-aliasing but it depends what do you think of such a "mid level" ppi : settle for it or avoid it?
I did test "high ppi" the cheapest, lame way : boot a linux mint cinnamon (18.1) live usb, set a CRT monitor at 2048x1536 (142 ppi) and use 2x scaling. Amazing text! It's a flickering disaster that lacks real estate (emulates 1024x768), but it's fun to try for five minutes. Anti-aliasing settings are in one place and have everything : none, grayscale, subpixel, RGB or BGR or vertical RGB or vertical BGR.
Scaling the whole GUI is in another place but only supports 1x, 2x and 3x (that is, 100%, 200% and 300%). Well, not sure about the 3x - if availble it would let you use an 8K as it if were a 2560x1440 display.
Anyway, that'd be pure luxury but I guess I could use a 32" 3840x2160 and "emulate" a 1920x1080 with sharp text, sitting fairly afar from it - yet fairly close to it.
With a high ppi monitor you don't quite need subpixel rendering, as a combination of classic anti-aliasing and very high resolution makes it perfect. Although if you go with a really large monitor you don't quite get a high dpi. There's 43" 3840x2160 on the market (!), which is around 102 ppi. Alright that's the Dell one, also as Philips and some other brand.. I did read about it, no bad things were said..
4K 32" is 137.68 ppi (courtesy of a simple ppi calculator on the web). I guess it's not too bad with grayscale anti-aliasing but it depends what do you think of such a "mid level" ppi : settle for it or avoid it?
I did test "high ppi" the cheapest, lame way : boot a linux mint cinnamon (18.1) live usb, set a CRT monitor at 2048x1536 (142 ppi) and use 2x scaling. Amazing text! It's a flickering disaster that lacks real estate (emulates 1024x768), but it's fun to try for five minutes. Anti-aliasing settings are in one place and have everything : none, grayscale, subpixel, RGB or BGR or vertical RGB or vertical BGR.
Scaling the whole GUI is in another place but only supports 1x, 2x and 3x (that is, 100%, 200% and 300%). Well, not sure about the 3x - if availble it would let you use an 8K as it if were a 2560x1440 display.
Anyway, that'd be pure luxury but I guess I could use a 32" 3840x2160 and "emulate" a 1920x1080 with sharp text, sitting fairly afar from it - yet fairly close to it.
Blazkowicz
Legend
The latest event along this story line - unless something stupid happened again today - is the LG 5K display and its debacle. That's really lame, as it has used the USB-C-Thunderbolt-Power connector and thus allowed to use a 2016 MBP while keeping the pile of display dongles in your travel bag.
Both the Phillips and the Dell 43" monitors suffer from image retention problems. There's a new version of the Phillips with an osd option to help minimize. They're both also bgr.
I think Apple's on a bad path. If it weren't for a few key apps and their ecosystem I'd probably get a Surface Book. I'm still not a fan of Windows 10 though even if it is good about scolding me for using Chrome.
I think Apple's on a bad path. If it weren't for a few key apps and their ecosystem I'd probably get a Surface Book. I'm still not a fan of Windows 10 though even if it is good about scolding me for using Chrome.
