Kinect Games

[Shifty Geezer]

Again, it seems to me Kinect and LBP2 are a match made in heaven. I was just toying with LBP2 seeing sackbot sizes, and you can make little ones and giant ones that lend themselves exactly to a Godzilla experience. Allow skeleton tracking for virtual sackboy puppetry, and it'll the most amazing interactive experience. It's times like these you appreciate how great it'd be if there was one platform that had everything.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I actually had the same thought about Little Big Planet, and the puppetry aspect. They do solve that rather nicely with the controller, but Robert and his girlfriend seem to enjoy my sexy moves in Kinect Sports, and you have a lot of freedom. There are some limits, but I really pushed it as much as I could and it responded very well. You can posture yourself sideways to a pretty good angle before it gets confused. You can pretty much duck low enough that the other player can't see much of you over the table. You can hop up and down, tilt your torso forward and back as normal. It responds very well until you do something like extend your leg out behind you and grab your foot with a hand. Connecting body parts where they shouldn't be connected seems to mess it up good

 

[bkilian]

I actually had the same thought about Little Big Planet, and the puppetry aspect. They do solve that rather nicely with the controller, but Robert and his girlfriend seem to enjoy my sexy moves in Kinect Sports, and you have a lot of freedom. There are some limits, but I really pushed it as much as I could and it responded very well. You can posture yourself sideways to a pretty good angle before it gets confused. You can pretty much duck low enough that the other player can't see much of you over the table. You can hop up and down, tilt your torso forward and back as normal. It responds very well until you do something like extend your leg out behind you and grab your foot with a hand. Connecting body parts where they shouldn't be connected seems to mess it up good

The way it works is essentially using machine learning with many many poses fed in, then when you move, it finds the pose you're closest to, uses that to determine which body part is which, and goes from there. Apparently someone never thought we'd have contortionists in the crowd . There are research papers out there describing the technique, what we did was take it from pure research to an actual usable product. It's essentially a full-body, realtime implementation of the technique they used to animate Benjamin Button

 

[RobertR1]

Does the system "learn" over time? Or can it report back errors to HQ and you guys can update the database on what else to look for and push it down with a dashboard update. I'm very curious to know about the "learning" capabilities of Kinect.

btw, thanks for actively participating and answering questions on Kinect. Much appreciated.

 

[bkilian]

Does the system "learn" over time? Or can it report back errors to HQ and you guys can update the database on what else to look for and push it down with a dashboard update. I'm very curious to know about the "learning" capabilities of Kinect.

btw, thanks for actively participating and answering questions on Kinect. Much appreciated.

I don't know. I do know that if you opt in to "voice data collection" (Please opt in! It's in the Privacy section of the online safety tab of the screens you get when you select your avatar in "my xbox") we will absolutely use that data to improve speech recognition over time. The beta had some apps that got people to attempt poses and then used that data for tuning the skeletal system, but I have no idea if there's anything like that in the final release. It would be an opt in, and I don't see an option, so I suspect not.

 

[NavNucST3]

No surprise but Kinect is a HUGE hit at my sons birthday party right now....Kinect Sports boxing...best way to tire out 8 rambunctious boys!

 

[Scott_Arm]

The way it works is essentially using machine learning with many many poses fed in, then when you move, it finds the pose you're closest to, uses that to determine which body part is which, and goes from there. Apparently someone never thought we'd have contortionists in the crowd . There are research papers out there describing the technique, what we did was take it from pure research to an actual usable product. It's essentially a full-body, realtime implementation of the technique they used to animate Benjamin Button

Really interesting video. I'm kind of unsure how that works with Kinect. The Primesense chip interprets that projected pattern to produce a depth buffer or something like that, which you interpret for the skeleton. Is that the point where they use the referenced poses? Do they break the poses up between upper body and lower body to make selection easier, or do they match full body poses, but blend them together? There's also obviously some flexibility in there, because they couldn't possibly have every angle of each arm to a few degrees, bent or unbent, in any direction at any angle relative to the ground ..... could they?

Seems like that could take up A LOT of processing and memory, and you'd need some really fast algorithms to do the matching. Seems like if you were doing it an parallel with the GPU, you'd want to split up the body into pieces somehow.

 

[AzBat]

Seems like that could take up A LOT of processing and memory, and you'd need some really fast algorithms to do the matching. Seems like if you were doing it an parallel with the GPU, you'd want to split up the body into pieces somehow.

EXACTLY! Read this piece on how they were able to do exactly that...

http://www.wired.co.uk/wired-magazine/archive/2010/11/features/the-game-changer?page=4

BTW, I had posted this in the Kinect Technology thread back in early October. It was pretty much panned as a puff piece. Nobody actually read it though.

Tommy McClain

 

[Acert93]

Ok, I was going to hold out on Kinect until it matured in regards to software but it seems the wife, out of the blue, is very very interested (read: Seattle rain has arrived). She barely knows anything about it, so I had to explain the technology and the games, but I guess she has been hearing things about it and seeing people hop around and such. We don't let our kids play many video games or watch many movies (we don't even have tv) but she liked the idea of the kids hopping around ... and I had mentioned to her about EA Active (from Scott's Wii experience) and seeing the YouFit stuff and she out of the blue thinks "we should get a Kinect."

Where would one even get one right now? The local Gamestop doesn't know when they will get more.

What games are people recommending? We have no interest in the seemingly amazing Dance Central, so Kinect Sports?

Is there a list of what will be in EA Active 2? Any vibe on what the best workout game (intensity, variation, fun, mulitplayer) will be?

I just hope the software matures. $200 for a Kinect and game is a lot for a novel idea. Some robust, active sports games with depth (boxing seems perfect if it can work) would be nice as well as some cross over gamer games (e.g. a good mech game, a robust light shooter, etc). I have high hopes for Kinect, but the initial offering shows devs either will need a wand of some sort or really make HUGE strides in user input with new gaming ideas.

or

My wife and kids are going to have a total blast with the Kinect games and all my hang ups will prove wrong. From my wife's reaction is definitely seems there is an attraction I don't get (prediction: she has a fairly busy blog, and she will blog about it and her readers will get a Kinect and my friend's list will be overrun by women and children!). Much akin to the Wii, which oddly my wife had no interest in after using the Wii Fit. The no-controller, whole body activity with more motions really appeals to her (she hated stepping on the board and waggling the wand for gestures). Hmmm I should try to find a Kiosk. Is there a Kiosk search tool to find the closest one?

Anyhow, thanks for all the feedback. Feel free to share some recommendations.

I just saw this on amazon US.

Very limited selection:
Kinect Sports
Dance Central
DanceMasters
Joy Ride
Kinectimals
Sonic Free Riders
Adrenalin Misfits

I'm grabbing Joy Ride and Kinectimals. We played the Joy Ride downloadable demo and my wife was destroying me and the kid. wife: 1st place me: 8th

Thanks Nav, this is an option. I am still mad about Joy Ride I wanted my free traditional Kart game!!

 

[Scott_Arm]

EXACTLY! Read this piece on how they were able to do exactly that...

http://www.wired.co.uk/wired-magazine/archive/2010/11/features/the-game-changer?page=4

BTW, I had posted this in the Kinect Technology thread back in early October. It was pretty much panned as a puff piece. Nobody actually read it though.

Tommy McClain

Ok, so I don't think that they do any reference based comparisons on the xbox. It looks like they created some wacky learning computer that uses the reference images to create an algorithm, which would run on the xbox. I think. If that's true, then it means they can hopefully continue to add more reference material and roll out software updates with a better algorithm.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Josh, Kinect Sports is the way to go for a start. Your kids will love it. As for EA Active 2, it's going to be expensive when it comes out because they are including some kind of heart sensor peripheral. It is a serious exercise program, and I'm not sure younger kids would like it. They do try to have activities to make it fun, but it's still a workout and not a game. I haven't played it much, but the Kinect Adventures pack-in seems pretty good. Me and Robert did this obstacle course thing, which was pretty entertaining.

 

[Acert93]

Josh, Kinect Sports is the way to go for a start. Your kids will love it. As for EA Active 2, it's going to be expensive when it comes out because they are including some kind of heart sensor peripheral. It is a serious exercise program, and I'm not sure younger kids would like it. They do try to have activities to make it fun, but it's still a workout and not a game. I haven't played it much, but the Kinect Adventures pack-in seems pretty good. Me and Robert did this obstacle course thing, which was pretty entertaining.

The workout software would be for my skinny wife and her slowly ballooning husband

Now I will just roll on out of the way so you can give more feedback!

I have been looking for a list of the 70 activities advertised for the EA game but cannot find any, let alone good video showing it off.

Honestly, I just want a deep, active sports game that I can use for cardio.

 

[NavNucST3]

[snipped]

Where would one even get one right now? The local Gamestop doesn't know when they will get more.

What games are people recommending? We have no interest in the seemingly amazing Dance Central, so Kinect Sports?

Is there a list of what will be in EA Active 2? Any vibe on what the best workout game (intensity, variation, fun, mulitplayer) will be?

I just hope the software matures. $200 for a Kinect and game is a lot for a novel idea. Some robust, active sports games with depth (boxing seems perfect if it can work) would be nice as well as some cross over gamer games (e.g. a good mech game, a robust light shooter, etc). I have high hopes for Kinect, but the initial offering shows devs either will need a wand of some sort or really make HUGE strides in user input with new gaming ideas.

or

My wife and kids are going to have a total blast with the Kinect games and all my hang ups will prove wrong. From my wife's reaction is definitely seems there is an attraction I don't get (prediction: she has a fairly busy blog, and she will blog about it and her readers will get a Kinect and my friend's list will be overrun by women and children!). Much akin to the Wii, which oddly my wife had no interest in after using the Wii Fit. The no-controller, whole body activity with more motions really appeals to her (she hated stepping on the board and waggling the wand for gestures). Hmmm I should try to find a Kiosk. Is there a Kiosk search tool to find the closest one?

Anyhow, thanks for all the feedback. Feel free to share some recommendations.



Thanks Nav, this is an option. I am still mad about Joy Ride I wanted my free traditional Kart game!!

Get it from Amazon, if you can find someone to take your 360 off your hands. If you can, then what I would do is order the 4GB Kinect bundle (immediately) since it will be in stock Nov 17th and they are doing a $40 promotion. Take that $40 and use it to feel slightly less gouged by the buying the 250GB hdd (IF you think you need it) or some 16GB USB sticks or a game if you think you have enough additional storage already. You will have Kinect with the 360 S and no need to go hunting around from store to store. To me it doesn't matter if you never play it if your wife enjoys it and will use it; you have your games, she has hers.

 

[NRP]

I finally checked out the Kinect device at a local Best Buy. Man, it's smaller that I expected. How long is the cable? I think I may need to place it on top of my 58" TV (which is wall mounted), so I'm concerned the default cable may not be long enough.

On a popularity note, the Kinect area was ransacked. It seemed people were buying Kinect units as soon as they refilled the display. I hope this thing isn't a loss leading device because I have a feeling they are going to sell a lot of them.

 

[Arwin]

The pack in, Sports and if you have small children and I know you do, Kiectimals should serve you fine. I don't know about the fitness stuff yet, but you may not need it as Sports is partly calory burn based ...

If you're sure it fits. I'm a bit jealous as it is just not an even an option in our house.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The workout software would be for my skinny wife and her slowly ballooning husband

Now I will just roll on out of the way so you can give more feedback!

I have been looking for a list of the 70 activities advertised for the EA game but cannot find any, let alone good video showing it off.

Honestly, I just want a deep, active sports game that I can use for cardio.

I imagine it'll be pretty similar to EA Active 1, so just look at some vids of that. The 70 activities are basically individual workouts. There isn't really depth to them, as they aren't games. One activity might be cross lunges. Another activity might be side lunges. Some of them look like sports, but you have limited control. What they've done is turned one or two sports movements into an exercise represented by the sport on screen. An example of that might be basketball. You have to bend your knees, jump and do the throwing motion, reach to the side to grab a ball and shoot again. They don't have an actual basketball game, where you can pass around the ball or anything.

As a workout program, I actually thought Active was very good. Using it with Kinect might be even better, because it leaves your hands free to use weights and won't have the annoying leg strap.

 

[thatdude90210]

Microsoft's own online store still has the stand alone Kinect sensor in stock. http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Kinect-for-Xbox-360/product/C737B081

One thing about the Kinect with Slim bundle is that the sensor in the bundle doesn't have a power adapter. Because the Slim doesn't need it, where as the old 360 does. So in case anyone want to move around Kinect on both an old 360 & the slim, you will need to buy the power adapter (~$40).

 

[NavNucST3]

I imagine it'll be pretty similar to EA Active 1, so just look at some vids of that. The 70 activities are basically individual workouts. There isn't really depth to them, as they aren't games. One activity might be cross lunges. Another activity might be side lunges. Some of them look like sports, but you have limited control. What they've done is turned one or two sports movements into an exercise represented by the sport on screen. An example of that might be basketball. You have to bend your knees, jump and do the throwing motion, reach to the side to grab a ball and shoot again. They don't have an actual basketball game, where you can pass around the ball or anything.

As a workout program, I actually thought Active was very good. Using it with Kinect might be even better, because it leaves your hands free to use weights and won't have the annoying leg strap.

My wife and I are finding Your Shape to be much better than Active on the Wii, though a large part of that is definitely not having the leg strap nor nunchuk cable, however, outside of that we actually have more "fun" doing the workouts...at least until that damn lady tells me to spread my legs further apart for the leg curls...I CANT SPREAD THEM ANY FURTHER APART LADY, LEAVE ME ALONE! We also love being able to look at our progress from the yourshapefitness website and setting goals and doing challenges which then also appear on the game.

I haven't personally played Kinectimals yet but even JoyRide for us is a semi-decent ab workout in the stunt arena and every other game we have definitely gets the heart pumping. Currently we own Kinectimals, Kinect JoyRide, Dance Central, Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, and Your Shape Fitness Evolved and there isn't a single title that we dislike the only thing we don't particularly care for is 20,000 leaks in KAdventures.

If I had to rank titles I think Your Shape may actually be my favorite title with Sports and Dance Central second and third respectively.

 

[matthias]

I'm really impressed with kinect itself and the software. I never thought that microsoft would get it in this short timeframe in a really stable working state. Shame on me.

I like Kinect Adventures as the pack in. It shows the strenghts of kinect and is just fun. And i really love the living statue thing.

I am still mad about Joy Ride I wanted my free traditional Kart game!!

Yeah, me too. And after trying the demo I am even more angry. The controls just don't work. Please ms, patch wheel support in.

and there isn't a single title that we dislike the only thing we don't particularly care for is 20,000 leaks in KAdventures.

I find 20.000 leaks particularly funny because it is one of the minigames that uses kinects 3d capabilities the most. And you look really stupid playing it

Next stop: Your Shape and Dance Central.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

What games are people recommending? We have no interest in the seemingly amazing Dance Central, so Kinect Sports?

I have no problems recommending Your Shape by UBIsoft. Your wife might also get a kick out of the "Zen exercises" (combination of Yoga, Tai Chi, etc.) as they'll help keep her flexible. And women love flexible in addition to being in shape. Hmmm, men love their wives to be flexible too...ahem. The "Gym Games" section of Your Shape has games that kids would certainly have fun with. You can work up a bit of a sweat in those, but the "Personal Trainer" area is where the real workouts are. And then, ack forgot name, but another section has the "cool down" exercises, which has the Yoga, tai chi, etc. for cooling down.

I'm eventually going to pick up at least EA Active 2.0 and possible the Biggest Loser one also. Mostly just to have more variety. The biggest thing that kills me when it comes to exercise is if I get bored. I figure with lots of variety, anytime I start getting bored, I'll hit another one.

My wife and kids are going to have a total blast with the Kinect games and all my hang ups will prove wrong. From my wife's reaction is definitely seems there is an attraction I don't get (prediction: she has a fairly busy blog, and she will blog about it and her readers will get a Kinect and my friend's list will be overrun by women and children!). Much akin to the Wii, which oddly my wife had no interest in after using the Wii Fit. The no-controller, whole body activity with more motions really appeals to her (she hated stepping on the board and waggling the wand for gestures). Hmmm I should try to find a Kiosk. Is there a Kiosk search tool to find the closest one?

If you are in Seattle, just head to the nearest Microsoft Store. They should all have one or more areas setup for Kinect and will probably have the best "play area" setup.

Your kids will love it. I've yet to run into a kid that hasn't gotten a kick out of it. Things adults may have niggles with, kids and their imaginations will just fill in. Not that I've run into many non-console playing adults that haven't gotten a kick out of it either. Heck, looking around here, you can even tell the console players are having a blast.

Regards,
SB