Killzone PS3 shown at GDC 07?

[NERO]

For those who want to play KZ1, it is has been a "classic" priced at 20USD for sometime now. I thinks I might check it out.

Sony screwed up by showing the trailer a couple of years ago and deserve the bad pr. I'm positive that the game will look relatively great (better than all fps not named crisis) but I hope they leak news about why this game will be different (gimmickery, AI, acting...etc). The only fps I currently care for right now are Portal and Bioshock.

 

[scooby_dooby]

It's a ludicrous argument to say that PS3 'falls back squarely on price' if Killzone fails to demonstrate 'PS3 superiority'. So ludicrous that I think it demands closer inspection as to why one would be motivated to attempt to place such a burden on such a title. For the sake of drama is not a bad bet in this case, I don't think.

Agreed, I don't put as much emphasis on KZ as Chef does, with regards to the success of PS3 as a console. With that said, he did say 'many people' and not 'all', so you're miscontruing the statement somewhat.

 

[blakjedi]

You guys are pretty silly with your rationale's against TheChef0.

First, every expectation that he highlights is based on the expectations Sony and the platform's supporters have. There is no power in his statements beyond commentary.

Second, if in the end he can come back and laugh in the face of a less than impressive KZPS3 showing... on this board, after its shown... then... so what? What does anyone care if he does that? Does it really take three or four posters and PS3 supporters to discuss this meaningless point of conversation?

Anyway I look forward to Killzone's showing on PS3 if for nothing than the animation... which other than the particles effects of the trailer I found to be the most impressive target in that non-target render render... if that makes any sense at all

 

[TheChefO]

I really don't understand why you persist in attaching an imagined importance to Killzone, TheChef0. I'd love to know who these people are who think Killzone will be the second coming in terms of establishing "PS3 superiority", because all I've seen since the controversy over the nature of the E3 05 demo is scepticism and cynicism (if not active anticipation for 'the real deal' to fall short - that is everywhere).

I think there's much better cases being made out there already in terms of validating the worthiness of PS3. I think you'll see much better cases in the future, obviously, as software matures - Killzone is not "the last chance" to show PS3 off If Killzone did not do that, the burden doesn't fall squarely on price, it falls on subsequent releases to do that. I open to surprise, but I don't know anyone, certainly least of all myself, who is expecting much of anything from Killzone, it's certainly well down my list. There's much more solid bets elsewhere, and I think most know that.

I could be cynical, and suggest that you're puffing up the significance of Killzone in the broad hope that it will fall flat in a more dramatic fashion.

Titanio,
This title was used as a graphical representation to support the story that Sony was building of a vastly superior system than any other on the market or soon to hit. I still come across many posters and fanboys that believe from the bottom of their heart, that ps3 will blow xb360 out of the water. This sentiment was toned down considerably when most multiplat games started showing up looking better on xb360. wink: ) but there is still a "hope/belief" that the numbers were not a lie and the vids were not lies either.

My position on the matter is very clear. I don't believe the hype.

However, Sony has a job to do. Are there other titles that could/would look impressive and show the system off? Sure. I never said otherwise. But this, This is the title everyone will be eyeing to measure up the consoles. Good thing for MS is they have Gears already on their console, as I've said many times, I expect KZ2 to outclass Halo3. Not because of some "fanboy dream" waiting to see the game fail, because (as Scooby pointed out) the developers have said, it isn't their goal. Their goal is large open field battles and this goal has been demonstrated via their e3 vid.

Sad thing is, with KZ2 one upping Halo3 graphics wise, this e3 hype/myth will likely live on.

 

[Titanio]

Agreed, I don't put as much emphasis on KZ as Chef does, with regards to the success of PS3 as a console. With that said, he did say 'many people' and not 'all', so you're miscontruing the statement somewhat.

This is the title everyone will be eyeing to measure up the consoles.

I think 'everyone' already well aware that we've yet to see the real Killzone. The expectation that has built around its unveiling has more to do with forum politics and posturing than any genuine expectation around the game. The latter will only actually emerge if the game looks like a good one (and I mean that in more ways than graphics, obviously), but right now I think there's little genuine expectation surrounding it. If Killzone fails to impress, it will fall by the wayside of many other excellent looking reasons to buy a PS3 coming this year, simple as that. Hopefully it can be one too, but if it's not, it'll not be missed by many. Sure, there'll be the initial crowing of fanbabies, but beyond the short-term, few will really care. People will only remain passionate about Killzone in the long term if it actually looks promising (again, in more ways than one).

 

[aselto]

Good thing for MS is they have Gears already on their console, as I've said many times, I expect KZ2 to outclass Halo3. Not because of some "fanboy dream" waiting to see the game fail, because (as Scooby pointed out) the developers have said, it isn't their goal. Their goal is large open field battles and this goal has been demonstrated via their e3 vid.

That E3 trailer had one of, if not the best graphics I have seen on X360. If Guerilla games match that quality, I'll be fully satisfied with Killzone 2(3) graphics.
Plus, GoW is only a game with great art, nothing more.

 

[inefficient]

Wow July 13th huh. Why did they pick a day on the 13th?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Fair enough, though most every will be looking at KZ and using it as some sort of measuring stick. How much value they attach to that comparison is going to vary of course...

And the post you actually replied to was:

KZ2 will be the "proof" many were/are looking for of console superiority by ps3.

...

I think there's little genuine expectation surrounding it.

Well, I think you're speaking for yourself, and not the majority of the hardcore PS userbase, who seem enthralled by KZ, and continue to pick the scraps of any news regarding the game.

 

[Tolkyn]

Gameplay in Halo 3 will be average or sub par, like the other 2 Halo's, and it will be one of the most overhyped games in recent memory.

fixed

 

[TheChefO]

I think 'everyone' already well aware that we've yet to see the real Killzone. The expectation that has built around its unveiling has more to do with forum politics and posturing than any genuine expectation around the game. The latter will only actually emerge if the game looks like a good one (and I mean that in more ways than graphics, obviously), but right now I think there's little genuine expectation surrounding it. If Killzone fails to impress, it will fall by the wayside of many other excellent looking reasons to buy a PS3 coming this year, simple as that. Hopefully it can be one too, but if it's not, it'll not be missed by many.

You know exactly what I mean and that's fine if you want to try and crucify me for Sony's sins. You know and I know exactly what I'm talking about. If KZ for some reason does fall flat on it's face, the only thing that would happen is the myth/hype would die and the system would have to stand on its own two feet. Other titles might still keep this myth alive but honestly, I don't think so. Realtime CGI is a pretty tough myth/hype to achieve.

Regarding my building the game up ...

I never said anything other than reasonable expectation based on positioning and facts known up to this point. Some of you guys are too much.

 

[blakjedi]

I think 'everyone' already well aware that we've yet to see the real Killzone. The expectation that has built around its unveiling has more to do with forum politics and posturing than any genuine expectation around the game. The latter will only actually emerge if the game looks like a good one (and I mean that in more ways than graphics, obviously), but right now I think there's little genuine expectation surrounding it.

I think that the bolded statement is utterly false. Unless you consider B3D the entire internet. There is geniune anticipation and hope for this title WITHIN SONY ITSELF. So to present this issue as if there there is no genuine anticipation for it on this board or any other, makes it look like you are attempting to lower expectations about the title while keeping your fingers crossed behind your back.

If Killzone fails to impress, it will fall by the wayside of many other excellent looking reasons to buy a PS3 coming this year, simple as that. Hopefully it can be one too, but if it's not, it'll not be missed by many.

If KZPS3 fails to impress... it will be a large psychological blow to many PS3 supporters... which will not change their stance on the power, potential or value of the machine mind you but what will really happen is the search will continue for the next holy grail and herald of obvious PS3 superiority over the X360... which seems to be a generalized raison d'etre of that set.

 

[Titanio]

Fair enough, though most every will be looking at KZ and using it as some sort of measuring stick. How much value they attach to that comparison is going to vary of course...

And the post you actually replied to was:

Sure, but his follow-up proved the point. Even saying 'many' is a big statement to make, too big IMO.

People can use KZ as a measuring stick all they like, but it serves as no more a valid one than any other title, if perhaps as a less valid one - if people want measuring sticks, they should look at what the best developers do with a system. Maybe Guerilla can be one of those developers, but if they are not, it says little about the system's ultimate capability.

I think that the bolded statement is utterly false. Unless you consider B3D the entire internet. There is geniune anticipation and hope for this title WITHIN SONY ITSELF. So to present this issue as if there there is no genuine anticipation for it on this board or any other, makes it look like you are attempting to lower expectations about the title while keeping your fingers crossed behind your back.

Hope within Sony itself is one thing. Nothing has been shown to give anyone outside of Sony any 'hope'. We literally know nothing about the title. The attention it has gotten is almost purely a consequence of the CG trailer and the controversy surrounding that. There is no genuine expectation yet around the game except as it relates to that trailer and the anticpated comparisons with that trailer. If the game happens to look good, as a game, then some genuine expectation might start to emerge for it, as it did with Motorstorm.

If KZPS3 fails to impress... it will be a large psychological blow to many PS3 supporters... which will not change their stance on the power, potential or value of the machine mind you but what will really happen is the search will continue for the next holy grail and herald of obvious PS3 superiority over the X360...

I don't know anyone holding Killzone out as the "that'll show 'em!" knock to any console. I think certain people have remained preoccupied with Killzone and certain people have moved on, but I think they're different than the sets you perceive.

 

[scooby_dooby]

People can use KZ as a measuring stick all they like, but it serves as no more a valid one than any other title, if perhaps as a less valid one - if people want measuring sticks, they should look at what the best developers do with a system. Maybe Guerilla can be one of those developers, but if they are not, it says little about the system's ultimate capability.

See, here you're trying to position KZ as if it's just another game. It's not. It is the main source of the E3 2005 controversy, and it continues to be a lightning rod.

There are many sets of eyes on KZ, much more than you're trying to portray. It's not the gamers fault that Sony setup an unproven developers to work on their most hyped game, but the hype is there, valid or not (completely unwarranted imo, but it's there)

 

[TheChefO]

Sure, but his follow-up proved the point. Even saying 'many' is a big statement to make, too big IMO.

People can use KZ as a measuring stick all they like, but it serves as no more a valid one than any other title, if perhaps as a less valid one - if people want measuring sticks, they should look at what the best developers do with a system. Maybe Guerilla can be one of those developers, but if they are not, it says little about the system's ultimate capability.

Look, the VAST MAJORITY paying attention to and or covering e3 2005 had the e3 vid sitting in their face and believed it was realtime. Sony had he opportunity to clarify as it was questioned by those with half a brain. Sony refused to speak honestly. The myth/hype is born.

To act as though this never happened and everyone knew the truth on the matter from day one is naive. If one were to be so pessemistic, one could say you are trying to unreasonably lower the level of expectation on this title for some reason.

 

[Titanio]

See, here you're trying to position KZ as if it's just another game. It's not. It is the main source of the E3 2005 controversy, and it continues to be a lightning rod.

I think I've pretty much said the same thing. My point is that the whole KZ 'thing' is centered solely on that, not on the game itself underneath. Most people know the trailer shown at E3 was not real. There was a HUGE flap over that, I think it would have been impossible to miss that. People's eyes are on it because of that, not because of an expectation that the game will be super-omg-awesome. You need only see that by the numbers that participate in these threads who otherwise would have zero interest in a game like this...they participate because of the controversy, and the (hopeful?) potential for more.

I hope Killzone can earn some genuine expectation based on its own merits, standing on its own two feet regardless of any CG trailers, but it's not something I'd be counting on.

Look, the VAST MAJORITY paying attention to and or covering e3 2005 had the e3 vid sitting in their face and believed it was realtime. Sony had he opportunity to clarify as it was questioned by those with half a brain. Sony refused to speak honestly. The myth/hype is born.

Go onto any messageboard and see how people are discussing Killzone, now. Ask people about that. I very much doubt the majority of people are sitting there blissfully unaware of the CG controversy, thinking that the E3 05 trailer is exactly how the game will actually look. The Killzone CG controversy has to have been one of the biggest of its kind, it's a byword for that kind of controversy at this stage. I think whatever myth you think is being perpetuated must be limited to fairly small sets of people at this stage. To more fundamentally attack your point, see how many use it as a sole and fundamental reason for preferring PS3 to another console.

 

[Ben-Nice]

But this, This is the title everyone will be eyeing to measure up the consoles

Who is this "everyone" you are referring to?

 

[3roxor]

It works both ways. If KZ delivers it will be hyped, but if it fails people will simply say 'I told you so' and move on. The game itself isn't that much in the picture actually.. there are few (if any) threads about it, and the KZ fanbase is relatively small (but loyal though) So it's all about the 'can they match the E3-2005 cgi movie?!?' Should make an 'interesting' thread when actual pics/movies appear

 

[DJ12]

Really. Or is he being logical, and recognizing that KZ2 will be targeted as a system showpiece, and graphical powerhouse, while the Bungie guys have stated explicitly they are concentrating on scope and atmosphere, instead of insane detail levels

As far as I'm concerned at best it's just going to be a very good looking boring FPS game that more than 50% of Playstation gamers couldn't give a monkeys about.

It is not the big deal he is trying to make out. If it looks great, that'll give me a couple of minutes to think I'm vindicated for getting rid of the 360 and waiting for a PS3, but in reality the variety of games that seem to be high on Sony's list of priorities (rather than every other game being a.n. other FPS game) is all the vindication I need.

 

[blakjedi]

I think that both MS and Sony have given great examples of both the way to go about showing showing off a game and not showing off a game.

How to show off a game:

Gears of War: truthful, regular updates
Mass Effect: Teary eyed goodness from the beginning
Motorstorm: started out untruthful, supplanted by regular truthful visble updates.
Little Big Planet: show off a game when you have something to show.

How not to show off a game

FM2: WTF?
Too Human: WTF?
KZPS3: WTF? so far

 

[TheChefO]

Who is this "everyone" you are referring to?

Everyone paying attention of course for good measure on this site alone: take a look at the members posting through the 3 pages in this thread.

Seriously anyone thinking Sony Fanboys are not anticipating this title to set itself apart from xb360 are fooling themselves.

The Good: KZ2 will likely outshine Halo3 graphicly due to design priorities of Bungie.

The Bad: KZ2 may not outshine Gears given the limited scope of Gears and the unknown scope of KZ2.

The Ugly: If KZ2 falls flat on its face, The hardcore Fanboys will still be looking for the next great measuring stick believing something will prove their faith is not in vein.