Ken Kutaragi to leave SCEI

[Tap In]

Hm ? The war is not over yet.

didn't say it was, just that my plan would have allowed a distinctly evident more powerful machine possibly at a lower price.


Edit: which actually wouldn't have helped in Japan at all anyway, where they are getting creamed by Wii but WW they may have put the 360 away with that strategy as people would have "upgraded" to a PS3. Unlike now where it is still uncertain and an uphill battle to overcome the 360 lead.

 

[Hardknock]

good post Patsu! :smile:

Personally, hindsight being 20/20, I now think Sony's best strategy would have been to wait until late 2007 or even 2008 to release the PS3 with everything that KK had envisioned PLUS with 1024 RAM and a more powerful GPU.

They would have been way behind MS software-wise but it's possible they could have introduced it as a Next-Next Generation, stepping over 360 as they did Dreamcast.

this IMO would have allowed KKs vision to be more cost effective allowing a more mainstream price. I do not fault his vision in any way but the implementation with the release of 360 (and to a degree Wii) was pushed forward ahead of schedule IMO.

Just look at the Ps2 sales to see that they easily could have milked that as their main performer for another year or two while PS3 Fab costs came down and software was refined.

again a risky move but with the advantage of hindsight.

Based on some of KK's comments they were perhaps a bit to arrogant for their own good possibly as well (at the current pricing)

While I mostly agree with what you've said here... you're forgetting one of the main reasons they had to release early besides 360 and that was HD-DVD

PS3 is the catalyst for Blu-Ray... it remains to be seen if this pays off for them in the end.

 

[RobertR1]

I remember saying this a while ago when he was first "promoted." Ofcourse people were being mean to me about it

Ken's done some great things with the PS1 and the PS2. I'm sure he has more than enough to retire so really this might be a blessing for his personal life. Business wise, it's obvious a head had to roll seeing the PS3 sales to date and losing last gen exclusives left and right.

 

[patsu]

didn't say it was, just that my plan would have allowed a distinctly evident more powerful machine possibly at a lower price.

It would be hard to compete with an even more entrenched Xbox 360 by then, given that developers will devote all their attentions on a single dominating platform. Even today PS2 is outselling PS3 and Xbox 360 in selected areas.

In the mean time, I'm getting more and more happy as a PS3 owner. Looking forward to Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Lair, Heavenly Sword and Home (in no particular order), plus any other wild idea from Sony.

 

[mrcorbo]

No I'm not a Stringer fan, but I can fully appreciate his work and I reserve judgement until Bullet #3 (preserving Sony DNA) is realized.

I have worked with someone like Kutaragi before and certain parts of me (plus the larger "industry") still hurt from his departure. You know what, he's back in business late last year, put back into power by the very circle who got rid of him. It seems people realize one day that mad people are a part of the change cycle. It's just timing. He came back more matured and smarter (Having all the time to reflect)... just like Steve Jobs.

Hang in there Mr. Kutaragi... or go do a PSN game



Too early to tell for now. Kutaragi's departure may show Kaz's or another engineer's genius. We all have to embrace uncertainty sometimes.

I totally agree with your overall take on this. Especially the Jobs parallel. Good post!

I suspect this ultimately was the result of an internal power struggle rather than the PS3 specifically. KK may have been reluctant to accept HS's authority and just ignored him to do things his way.

 

[Tap In]

It would be hard to compete with an even more entrenched Xbox 360 by then, given that developers will devote all their attentions on a single dominating platform. Even today PS2 is outselling PS3 and Xbox 360 in selected areas.

see my edit

Nothing is certain but my theory is that people would have seen the PS3 as an upgrade and a natural progression to a next generation if pricing was similar to 360, released much later and was evidently more powerful. If the machine had twice the RAM and a more powerful GPU combined with Cell and a more mature Blu Ray market I think they could have created a Next Generation 1.5 and had a PS2 vibe going. :smile:

they tried for and hoped for a PS2 vibe with the PS3 but with the same RAM and similar power as 360 and mostly Blu Ray to distinguish it, $599 does not a PS2 make.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

...and a more mature Blu Ray market.

Would there have been a more mature BluRay market without PS3 though?

Anyhoo, market talk isn't really the topic here!

 

[Tap In]

Anyhoo, market talk isn't really the topic here!

I was talking about KK's vision and how it was genius ahead of its time, which if perhaps timed differently, may have allowed him to have stayed on and perhaps advance within Sony instead of being replaced.

 

[DUALDISASTER]

What's his job now?

 

[TheChefO]

Mr. Kutaragi will be missed.

Seriously, I think Sony will be missing something without his leadership. He may have been considered crazy etc by many (jokingly, including myself) but anyone with any sort of appreciation for technology would be a fool not to recognize his contributions to the field. I would have liked to see him refocus his designs more ps1-like than ps2 though (easy to develop for and maximize) and perhaps new management will refocus their efforts in this direction. Still, it is sad to see the man who lead the design team for Cell won't be around to reap the benefits of this highly scalable architecture. I truly think their time was coming in ps4 with this tech and it would pay off in spades. As it is, it seems he was a bit of a scape-goat for this long term investment project known as Cell.

BR I still think was a mistake and if this were a sticking point with Ken's ps3 design, then maybe he does deserve this. If not though, (I can't see why Kutaragi would have been pushing for a nextgen movie format when it was obvious it would delay his console and vastly increase its price) then I think this was a mistake and an injustice.

I'll also miss his wildly out of context and poorly mistranslated quotes.

 

[karlotta]

What's his job now?

ScapeGoat.

 

[patsu]

see my edit

Nothing is certain but my theory is that people would have seen the PS3 as an upgrade and a natural progression to a next generation if pricing was similar to 360, released much later and was evidently more powerful. If the machine had twice the RAM and a more powerful GPU combined with Cell and a more mature Blu Ray market I think they could have created a Next Generation 1.5 and had a PS2 vibe going. :smile:

they tried for and hoped for a PS2 vibe with the PS3 but with the same RAM and similar power as 360 and mostly Blu Ray to distinguish it, $599 does not a PS2 make.

May be... but I think the world is changing. I'm only against the notion of a "better" Xbox 360 because:

"The world may not beat a path to your door if you build a better mousetrap"

It's best to position PS3 as a different experience from Xbox 360 and Wii. I can see Sony having that intention, but only time will tell whether they can deliver (within the window)

Actually now that Kutaragi "retires", I have to wonder about David Karraker's performance indicators. PS Home press is great but the PR was handled in Europe ? In his view, what makes a good PR in US ?

Come on man... tighten up your work. You seem mature and experienced enough to deliver, but somehow the communications keep missing beats and info. Is corporate Sony croak getting in the way ?

ScapeGoat.

It's part of the Job Descriptions for any high paying big wig.

 

[karlotta]

Sony music will be the end of PS4, the company needs to break up.Stringer will be gone a year from now.

 

[function]

I think even Sony are accepting that the PS3 has gone wrong, and it's got to be KK that takes it in the neck for that. It's kind of a shame, but there you go - he has messed up significantly (or lots of people under him have over a long period of time - same difference).

I wonder how bad Sony thinks things are going to get with the PS3 to be slashing jobs and giving marching orders (or pressuring people out). It's all (once again) a bit Sega.

I wonder if now that Blu Ray is starting to win, Sony are forgetting the role that the PS3 played in this and only looking to lost "next-gen" market share, even as the PS2 marches on forcefully.

 

[SugarCoat]

I wonder if now that Blu Ray is starting to win

uh what?

 

[function]

uh what?

Well, Blu Ray was behind HD-DVD in sales for months (in America and Europe), but in the last couple of months I've seen stats to say it's now outpacing HD-DVD nearly 2:1 (in America at least). Even identical titles relesed on both formats are selling better on Blu Ray.

Or did I get that wrong? Please correct me if so.

 

[avaya]

Pana posted the Sony charter over at the GAF thread, it was the first thing I thought of when I heard this news.

The man was a legend and a viosnary, he talked about the future in the present, that irked people. Ultimately no one kept him in check during the PS3 design process and the division is now in a spot of bother. The whole shift in the Japanese market is also probably a large factor behind this, PS3 is doing horribly in its home territory.

Anyway, I hope his influence will still preside within the design team he nurtured at SCEI for the next generation of hardware.

I will certainly miss his quotes.

 

[Entropy]

The second bullet is his [Stringers] drive to get different Sony divisions to work together. Unfortunately, we have not seen a clear cut example of this yet. Blu-ray + Playstation is a start, but they didn't execute well enough to talk about it. The other game plans (e.g., digital distribution and living room war) are not revealed yet. Hopefully we get to hear more in their upcoming financial event.

Ironically Blu-Ray by all appearances was the weight that sunk the PS3 launch. It delayed the mass production necessary for launching the console and added significantly to the cost without bringing immediately obvious benefits to its gaming audience.

Whether or not the Blu-Ray tie in will eventually turn out to be a win for Sony as a whole remains to be seen, but there is no doubt that its inclusion has hobbled the launch of the PS3 console.

KK was interested in the Cell computing concept, networked distributed computing. By all accounts, his contribution as a driver of the PS3 design lies in those areas.

 

[whatever7]

Was reducing Sony's investment in the silicon/semiconductor market also KK's decision? He lost his job in the semiconductor division around the time Sony decided to go with Stringer so this always confuses me.

The gaming division has a clearer vision now but frankly I don't think Sony as a whole has a clear vision in the whole "digital home entertainment" business. Has they done anything to the Sony Connect recently?

 

[SugarCoat]

Well, Blu Ray was behind HD-DVD in sales for months (in America and Europe), but in the last couple of months I've seen stats to say it's now outpacing HD-DVD nearly 2:1 (in America at least). Even identical titles relesed on both formats are selling better on Blu Ray.

Or did I get that wrong? Please correct me if so.

Well as already shown the sales spikes are directly related to the recent deals on Blu-Ray movies, although that wasnt really why i questioned what you said. The sales of nexgen format HD material as a whole, both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, are still extremely niche compared to other formats, so calling anyone a winner of anything is really quite ridiculous. Even as cocky as Sony is they know this too so it wouldnt be directly related to this news.