Japanese Developers Changing Horses?

[SugarCoat]

That's not a very good example at all, considering the GG weighed a metric tonne and lasted about 20 minutes on battery power...

slow down a little bit, battery life was bad but not that bad for a product like that in that time. Mostly the problem was it was before the time of NiCad packs were standard so store batteries dominated for both it and the Gameboy and rechargables were still expensive but you needed 6 of the suckers to run it without paying out the nose for new throw-aways. If memory serves me it lasted only about 6 hours on the 6 AA vs the better life and 4AA of the Gameboy. Gamegears weight also wasnt that bad, most of it was from the batteries. The unit itself was only 14 ounces, not much heavier then the origonal Gameboy, or about the acceptable weight of a small digital camera these days.

What killed the GameGear was a lackluster game lineup, not the aesthetics (we're not comparing it against the PSP or a GameBoy revision released a decade later are we?), which were actually not bad for something released in 1990. Also a time when Cell Phones were still the size of bricks. Anyway point is, GameBoy or GameGear, both were certainly large and heavy enough that you could easily kill someone by smashing them in the head with it.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

You should pay more attention to wii.ign.com.

What do you mean?

I did not mean to imply that the Wii is a poor console, just that it does not offer what the ethusiast market wants. As I said before, games like Halo, Mass Effect, Too Human, Bioshock, etc will always have more appeal to the enthusiast gamer as opposed to games like Wii Sports, and since there is such a disparity in power between Wii and the other next generation platforms I do not see those traditional games moving over the Wii. I am not saying that it is impossible for unique games based on the strengths of the Wii to be developed under franchises like Tom Clancy, just that they will not be targeted at the enthusiast gamer due to the Wii's target market and hardware limitations. In a sense, Nintendo sliglty missed having the next Playstation in terms of mass market appeal in that they have left a realitivly large market of enthusiasts to be exploited by Microsoft and Sony, not that they really care.

 

[Platon]

Well, most people here would know that I am leaning towards the xbox360 games and so on, but I still can not dissmiss the success of the Wii and taking of the fanboy goggles for a while I think it is the same for most people.

When your girlfriend comes and tells you when you are going to get a Wii then you know that Nin has done their job and certainly reaching out for new markets, you know that 1 billion that MS want to reach as well? And when mainstream magazines talks about the "new generation" of consoles were your kids are active and getting excersize playing compared to the old gen "360, PS3" then you know Nin is sitting pretty nice with the parents as well, as if the sales numbers had not said that already.

Many would claim that it is not the same market as PS3 and 360 are going for and it might partly be true but eventually they all want to get were the Wii is or at least heading, I don't think that MS was talking about a totaly different billion of people, there is afterall just so many of out there.

Now, people might claim that most of those will not buy that many games and they might get a few games for the rest of thier lives having them around similarly to board games or what not, but does that really mater? When making money on the hardware Nin is no longer dependent on selling 10 games per console to be profitable whetever they sell they make money of and when you do have a huge install base you don't tneed that big of a % bying games to make games profitable for the 3rd parties as well.

As for it getting old sure, everything is, I just doubt that it will be getting old faster than the others due to the graphics, because in that regard it is already old and people don't care, maybe when everyone gets an HDTV they will think the Wii is not all that great, but by then I am sure Wii Too will be out or around the corner. And sure it is not only about the graphics, physics, Ai and what not will not develop on the Wii, but it still will not matter becasue when you can actually swing the golfclub or box with your hands just some better simulation on the screen will not make up for the difference in interactivity people feel with the Wii.

It is the techjunkie in me that has made me not get a wii yet, despite the outer pressure, it just feels too much of money right now for "last gen" tech and that most games do not appeal all that much to me right but come first price drop and I think it will be inevitable to get one...

 

[Natoma]

What do you mean?

I did not mean to imply that the Wii is a poor console, just that it does not offer what the ethusiast market wants. As I said before, games like Halo, Mass Effect, Too Human, Bioshock, etc will always have more appeal to the enthusiast gamer as opposed to games like Wii Sports, and since there is such a disparity in power between Wii and the other next generation platforms I do not see those traditional games moving over the Wii. I am not saying that it is impossible for unique games based on the strengths of the Wii to be developed under franchises like Tom Clancy, just that they will not be targeted at the enthusiast gamer due to the Wii's target market and hardware limitations. In a sense, Nintendo sliglty missed having the next Playstation in terms of mass market appeal in that they have left a realitivly large market of enthusiasts to be exploited by Microsoft and Sony, not that they really care.

As I said, you should pay more attention to wii.ign.com.

The Wii is far more than Wii Sports at this point in time, in terms of released games and in terms of announced games. That's like me saying that the 360 is only Gears of War.

One thing I noticed regarding the titles you mentioned. It seems that they're all first or third person shooters, and they all look the same. Now, are you saying that this is the only style of game that the enthusiast market desires? Because when I look at the 360 library, I begin to notice that most of it is shooters and racing games. Whether its Tom Clancy, GRAW, Crysis, Gears of War, Too Human, Forza 2, etc. Not so much on RPGs, casual titles, adventure games, strategy, etc.

Am I mistaken in that? I ask in part to make a point, and in part because I'm buying a large screen HDTV and I'm looking to invest in a 360 or PS3 this christmas, whichever is less than $299 for a premium bundle*. One of those two will go along with the Wii I finally get a chance to buy.

* - Granted the PS3 being less than $299 is a pipe dream, but I'm keeping a sliver of hope alive.

 

[Phil]

The Nihon Keizai Shinbun is reporting both in its online and print versions that various Japanese development houses are reallocating their resources from Sony platforms to competing Nintendo consoles.

Read the full news item

Nice. Beyond3d is turning into The Register.

* Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with the contents of the news or it being PS3 related.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

As I said, you should pay more attention to wii.ign.com.

The Wii is far more than Wii Sports at this point in time, in terms of released games and in terms of announced games. That's like me saying that the 360 is only Gears of War.

One thing I noticed regarding the titles you mentioned. It seems that they're all first or third person shooters, and they all look the same. Now, are you saying that this is the only style of game that the enthusiast market desires? Because when I look at the 360 library, I begin to notice that most of it is shooters and racing games. Whether its Tom Clancy, GRAW, Crysis, Gears of War, Too Human, Forza 2, etc. Not so much on RPGs, casual titles, adventure games, strategy, etc.

Am I mistaken in that? I ask in part to make a point, and in part because I'm buying a large screen HDTV and I'm looking to invest in a 360 or PS3 this christmas, whichever is less than $299 for a premium bundle*. One of those two will go along with the Wii I finally get a chance to buy.

* - Granted the PS3 being less than $299 is a pipe dream, but I'm keeping a sliver of hope alive.

Again, what games have been announced for the Wii that appeal to the enthusiast gamers? Aside from Metriod Prime, SSB and Mario Galaxy what games does the Wii have going for it? Right now its library consists of poor PS2 ports and shovel ware. I am not saying Microsoft has great diversity in games which is why they are having trouble appealing to the mass market, but that despite the fact that they have a lot of action games at least they have been consistent in producing quality titles.

The Wii is far more than Wii Sports at this point in time, in terms of released games and in terms of announced games. That's like me saying that the 360 is only Gears of War.

Not really, at least from my experiance with the system and what my friends have said. The games have no depth and other than Wii Tennis none of them are really fun / the controls do no work properly. Beyond Wii Sports and The Legend of Zelda this console has no interesting software, which is especially dissapointing considering the unique control interface it has.

 

[DeadlyNinja]

Again, what games have been announced for the Wii that appeal to the enthusiast gamers? Aside from Metriod Prime, SSB and Mario Galaxy what games does the Wii have going for it? Right now its library consists of poor PS2 ports and shovel ware. I am not saying Microsoft has great diversity in games which is why they are having trouble appealing to the mass market, but that despite the fact that they have a lot of action games at least they have been consistent in producing quality titles.

That's simple, most of third parties up until 2 months ago didn't think the Wii was going to be such a success. Most people thought the system wasn't going to be this hot so they put out whatever shovel ware and PS2 port for a quick buck. Remember the DS? It didn't have good games and third parties weren't putting much effort until the system really took off like a rocket. Now 3rd parties are scrambling to get game out for it. Microsoft on the other hand already has 1 and a half year head start against the Wii, if they still don't have any good games by now, they'd be in bigger trouble. Of course a lot of great games coming out for it are also coming out on PC, and if graphics are as important as some of you said, then why play the 360 version when I can play it on PC?

 

[Natoma]

Again, what games have been announced for the Wii that appeal to the enthusiast gamers? Aside from Metriod Prime, SSB and Mario Galaxy what games does the Wii have going for it? Right now its library consists of poor PS2 ports and shovel ware.

Some games that are out and some games that have been announced. Games that are out already are in bold.

Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Super Mario Galaxy
Nights
Manhunt 2 (whenever they get around to releasing it. damn censors)
The Godfather: Blackhand
Scarface: The World Is Mine
SSX Blur
Zelda Twilight Princess
Excite Truck
Super Paper Mario
Madden '07
Madden '08 (it really looks hot, particularly the ability to draw your plays on screen like a telestrator)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
Resident Evil 4 (if you haven't played it, which a lot of people, myself included, have not)
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Red Steel (some people like it, some people don't)
No More Heroes
Guitar Hero III
Soul Calibur Legends
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Dragon Quest Swords
Treasure Island Z aka Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Sadness
Harry Potter (I know, I know. But it's been getting pretty good reviews. I'm actually interested)
The Bigs (baseball game)
Battalion Wars 2
Mario Strikers Charged
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution
Dragon Blade: Wrath of Fire

I am not saying Microsoft has great diversity in games which is why they are having trouble appealing to the mass market, but that despite the fact that they have a lot of action games at least they have been consistent in producing quality titles.

All I'm asking is, as a prospective buyer of the system, what does it offer beyond shooters and racing games? I've offered a snippet of Nintendo selections above, and tried to keep it to exclusive titles for the platform, or titles where the Wii controls made a huge difference (harry potter, madden 07, madden 08, tiger woods, for example).

It's great that there are quality games on the 360. But what else does it have in terms of a gaming library? My tastes are very eclectic. I have over 20 GC games and 10 DS games, all of which are from vastly different genres. I like a lot of variety.

 

[dobwal]

What do you mean?

I did not mean to imply that the Wii is a poor console, just that it does not offer what the ethusiast market wants. As I said before, games like Halo, Mass Effect, Too Human, Bioshock, etc will always have more appeal to the enthusiast gamer as opposed to games like Wii Sports, and since there is such a disparity in power between Wii and the other next generation platforms I do not see those traditional games moving over the Wii. I am not saying that it is impossible for unique games based on the strengths of the Wii to be developed under franchises like Tom Clancy, just that they will not be targeted at the enthusiast gamer due to the Wii's target market and hardware limitations. In a sense, Nintendo sliglty missed having the next Playstation in terms of mass market appeal in that they have left a realitivly large market of enthusiasts to be exploited by Microsoft and Sony, not that they really care.

Enthusiasts alone can't support a major console and any major franchise like Halo while having a huge hardcore following found most of its sales coming from casual gamers.

Look at the PC gaming market with its huge enthusiast following. Yet, even in the PC market, enthusiasts of highend graphics cards can't support most PC games by themselves. Every major PC game that can be considered cutting edge can be played on far more mudane and average computers with midrange discrete vcards. More highend PC games are played with majority of their settings "turned down" then the majority of their settings "turned up".

Games follow the userbase and not the technology.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

That's simple, most of third parties up until 2 months ago didn't think the Wii was going to be such a success. Most people thought the system wasn't going to be this hot so they put out whatever shovel ware and PS2 port for a quick buck. Remember the DS? It didn't have good games and third parties weren't putting much effort until the system really took off like a rocket. Now 3rd parties are scrambling to get game out for it. Microsoft on the other hand already has 1 and a half year head start against the Wii, if they still don't have any good games by now, they'd be in bigger trouble. Of course a lot of great games coming out for it are also coming out on PC, and if graphics are as important as some of you said, then why play the 360 version when I can play it on PC?

So you think the Wii is going to be the place to play the games I have mentioned earlier? I find it kind of hard to imagine going from GTA on the Xbox 360 / PS3 to GTA on the Wii. There will always be a market for the games that the Xbox 360 has and Nintendo does not want to try to compete with Sony and Microsoft in this area. What Nintendo has created is a machine that appeals to mass market by virtue of the price and the method of control. The people that purchase Wii's do not want epic games like Halo and Mass Effect but family oriented and easy to access titles like Wii Play, Wario Ware and such.

 

[Natoma]

So you think the Wii is going to be the place to play the games I have mentioned earlier? I find it kind of hard to imagine going from GTA on the Xbox 360 / PS3 to GTA on the Wii. There will always be a market for the games that the Xbox 360 has and Nintendo does not want to try to compete with Sony and Microsoft in this area. What Nintendo has created is a machine that appeals to mass market by virtue of the price and the method of control. The people that purchase Wii's do not want epic games like Halo and Mass Effect but family oriented and easy to access titles like Wii Play, Wario Ware and such.

Some do, but not all. And the game library to date shows that.

The same for the 360. Apparently the people that purchase 360s want shooters and racers, but not much else. Is that really true or fair to say? I don't think so. So I don't think you can apply that standard to the Wii, or any console for that matter.

Even Microsoft agrees with my assessment. A week or so ago, they stated that they need to branch out of their core audience because if they don't, they'll be relegated to ~25m console owners again, not the 90m console owners they want to get to.

 

[DeadlyNinja]

Some do, but not all. And the game library to date shows that.

The same for the 360. Apparently the people that purchase 360s want shooters and racers, but not much else. Is that really true or fair to say? I don't think so. So I don't think you can apply that standard to the Wii, or any console for that matter.

Even Microsoft agrees with my assessment. A week or so ago, they stated that they need to branch out of their core audience because if they don't, they'll be relegated to ~25m console owners again, not the 90m console owners they want to get to.

Truth be told, I honestly can't think of anything on the 360 other than shooters and racers. I mean, Oblivion is about the only big thing I can think of right off the bat that doesn't fall into the 2. Things to look forward to in the future for the 360 are mostly shooters though. Forza 2's already out and I'm not sure what other big name racers are coming.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Some do, but not all. And the game library to date shows that.

To be fair, the library isnt the indicator; it's the title sales that matter. eg. XB360 has Viva Pinata, but lacklustre sales show it's not a game the platformer owerns particularly want. Okami wasn't a title PS2 owners were really keen for, whereas GTA3 was, evidenced by the sales. A company releasing a game for a platform shows they expect/hope there's a market for it, but there may not be. Long term, publishers will learn what does and does not sell on a platform and only publish titles to fit, so the long term library should be an indicator of platform owners tastes. Short term, the library only shows publishers guesses.

At the moment Wii shows excellent sales of Wii-sports type titles. I don't know how well it's 'divergent' titles like The Godfather, Scarface, and Red Steel, have sold. If they've sold plenty, the platform has a divergent populace where not everyone wants Wii-sports-esque games. If these and similar titles have sold poorly, that suggests Wii owners are just after the Wii-sports-esque games.

 

[Natoma]

To be fair, the library isnt the indicator; it's the title sales that matter. eg. XB360 has Viva Pinata, but lacklustre sales show it's not a game the platformer owerns particularly want. Okami wasn't a title PS2 owners were really keen for, whereas GTA3 was, evidenced by the sales. A company releasing a game for a platform shows they expect/hope there's a market for it, but there may not be. Long term, publishers will learn what does and does not sell on a platform and only publish titles to fit, so the long term library should be an indicator of platform owners tastes. Short term, the library only shows publishers guesses.

At the moment Wii shows excellent sales of Wii-sports type titles. I don't know how well it's 'divergent' titles like The Godfather, Scarface, and Red Steel, have sold. If they've sold plenty, the platform has a divergent populace where not everyone wants Wii-sports-esque games. If these and similar titles have sold poorly, that suggests Wii owners are just after the Wii-sports-esque games.

I don't know how well Godfather and Scarface have sold (scarface just came out a couple of weeks ago btw), but Red Steel has sold well over 1m copies worldwide to date on a system of ~8m people.

Not too shabby. It seems that the demand is there if the games are good and they come.

As for Viva Pinata, it's possible that MS, by focusing on the hardcore racer/shooter crowd so much, self-selected the game to fail. Now they're trying to expand their market, but if it's already ingrained that the 360 is for hardcore people and the titles show that by and large, it may be very difficult to expand beyond the pigeonholed place they're in right now.

The same went for what happened to Nintendo the last two generations. The Wii has seemingly wiped the slate clean, with developers rushing to bring all kinds of titles to address the Wii's broader market. But you are right, if they don't continue this momentum of non-wii sports/warioware/wii play party games, it will stall.

To date, it seems that they're trying really hard to avoid that fate. I just hope MS can do the same, otherwise my 360 collection will be rather small come christmas.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Some games that are out and some games that have been announced. Games that are out already are in bold.

Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Super Mario Galaxy
Nights
Manhunt 2 (whenever they get around to releasing it. damn censors)
The Godfather: Blackhand
Scarface: The World Is Mine
SSX Blur
Zelda Twilight Princess
Excite Truck
Super Paper Mario
Madden '07
Madden '08 (it really looks hot, particularly the ability to draw your plays on screen like a telestrator)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
Resident Evil 4 (if you haven't played it, which a lot of people, myself included, have not)
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Red Steel (some people like it, some people don't)
No More Heroes
Guitar Hero III
Soul Calibur Legends
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Dragon Quest Swords
Treasure Island Z aka Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Sadness
Harry Potter (I know, I know. But it's been getting pretty good reviews. I'm actually interested)
The Bigs (baseball game)
Battalion Wars 2
Mario Strikers Charged
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution
Dragon Blade: Wrath of Fire



All I'm asking is, as a prospective buyer of the system, what does it offer beyond shooters and racing games? I've offered a snippet of Nintendo selections above, and tried to keep it to exclusive titles for the platform, or titles where the Wii controls made a huge difference (harry potter, madden 07, madden 08, tiger woods, for example).

It's great that there are quality games on the 360. But what else does it have in terms of a gaming library? My tastes are very eclectic. I have over 20 GC games and 10 DS games, all of which are from vastly different genres. I like a lot of variety.

Although I feel this debate is getting a bit redundant, I will respond to the list you posted. All of the EA sports games are available for Xbox 360, along with Harry Potter and The Godfather. In fact, most of the games released on the Wii are avaiable and better on the Xbox 360 (in some cases the Xbox/PS2) or were just poor games in the first place and made slightly better by Wii controls. Games like Soul Caliber and Naruto have 360 equivelents that are probably going to be the definitive versions. This debate could go back and forth without any real progress being made and its not that anything we debate here matters. The Wii has more mass appeal than the 360/PS3 right now, but I doubt the definitive versions of games that appeal to the more traditional enthusiast market are going to be released on the Wii no matter how large its market gets.

 

[Natoma]

Although I feel this debate is getting a bit redundant, I will respond to the list you posted. All of the EA sports games are available for Xbox 360, along with Harry Potter and The Godfather. In fact, most of the games released on the Wii are avaiable and better on the Xbox 360 (in some cases the Xbox/PS2) or were just poor games in the first place and made slightly better by Wii controls. Games like Soul Caliber and Naruto have 360 equivelents that are probably going to be the definitive versions. This debate could go back and forth without any real progress being made and its not that anything we debate here matters. The Wii has more mass appeal than the 360/PS3 right now, but I doubt the definitive versions of games that appeal to the more traditional enthusiast market are going to be released on the Wii no matter how large its market gets.

Well as I mentioned, I noted games that were exclusive to the Wii, and cross-platform games that were heavily enhanced by the Wii controls.

Take Harry Potter for example. Every review I've read states that the Wii version is the definitive version. The same for Madden '07. The same for Godfather. The same for Scarface. The same for Sonic. The same for RE4.

Why? Because of the control scheme and the graphics that are still pretty damn good regardless of the lack of HD. Now it can be said that Soul Calibur and Naruto might end up being the definitive version on the 360, but who's to really say? The track record thus far states that the Wii shouldn't be discounted as you're doing.

That's all I'm pointing out.

And you didn't mention the exclusives btw.

 

[Anvil]

Games like Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell, Halo, Mass Effect, Bioshock, GTA, etc are all not possible on Wii and it does not look like developers are moving their serious titles over to the Wii.

Really? I wonder which games I have been playing over the past few years that in fact had those same names? What you are really trying to say is that the Wii cannot play these games in high definition and not that the Wii cannot play these games at all.

I think the Wii has great mass market appeal through its control scheme and price, but beyond that it has nothing to satisfy enthusiasts / traditional gamers for which there will always be a market.

Hmmm....I have been gaming like since forever and I like the Wii but I according to you I am not an "enthusiasts / traditional gamer"? Man I wonder what type of gamer I am then?

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Well as I mentioned, I noted games that were exclusive to the Wii, and cross-platform games that were heavily enhanced by the Wii controls.

Take Harry Potter for example. Every review I've read states that the Wii version is the definitive version. The same for Madden '07. The same for Godfather. The same for Scarface. The same for Sonic. The same for RE4.

Why? Because of the control scheme and the graphics that are still pretty damn good regardless of the lack of HD. Now it can be said that Soul Calibur and Naruto might end up being the definitive version on the 360, but who's to really say? The track record thus far states that the Wii shouldn't be discounted as you're doing.

That's all I'm pointing out.

And you didn't mention the exclusives btw.

What exactly are we debating about? I mean, who cares if The Godfather and Harry Potter are the "definitive" version for the Wii, both games are not very good and not really worth talking about. I think initially we were debating over whether or not the Wii can appeal to the enthusiast gamer and got sidetracked along the way.
Based on the list you posted Wii has just as many games that appeal to mass market as the Xbox 360 does, "definitive" versions or not. What aides the Wii in appealing to the mass market is the price relative to the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 coupled with the controller which has universal appeal among casual gamers. The problem for Nintendo is that they are sorely lacking anything to compete with Microsoft and Sony's GTAs and Halo's which are unrivalled in the number of software and hardware units they can push.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Hmmm....I have been gaming like since forever and I like the Wii but I according to you I am not an "enthusiasts / traditional gamer"? Man I wonder what type of gamer I am then?

I like the Wii too, I just do not think it has what it takes to recreate the games we are seeing on the 360 and PS3 while maintaing what makes them good. One example would be CoD 3 which is vastly inferior on the Wii due to a lack of online and hardware capabilities.

 

[thatdude90210]

Hmmm....I have been gaming like since forever and I like the Wii but I according to you I am not an "enthusiasts / traditional gamer"? Man I wonder what type of gamer I am then?

Same here. I have a 360 and a plasma tv. But the last game I got for the 360 was Gears of War. Since then I bought about 6 games for the Wii and nothing for the 360. People may say that the 360 & the Wii are not direct competitors, but any time &/or money I spend on Wii games is time &/or money that isn't going to 360 games.