Japanese Article: Developers leaving Sony (PS3)

[nondescript]

Not that it really matters now...but basically, the article:

- Draws a labored parallel between TGS 2005 and Koizumi recent electoral victory.
- Calls Kutaragi the "Oda Nobunaga of the industry".
- Says both Kutaragi and Koizumi have charismatic styles of leadership.
- Has quotes from one developer, who says, among other things: (Paraphrased)
" Kutaragi said he wanted games 'worthy of a PS3 - if they are only PS2-level, that would be troubling' "
"Kutaragi, who only chases hardware improvement, is creating distrust, and many gamemakers are leaving him at a rate greater than Nintendo's Gamecube era"
- Has quotes from one industry journalist: (Paraphrased)
" The Xbox360 Japanese price is 39795 Yen. It is quite possible that PS3 will cost more. If we talk about PC OS'es, the Xbox360 is the cheap and reliable Windows, and the PS3 feels like the high-quality/luxury Mac. In the world market, with different economic conditions [in different places], they may be aiming for different markets."

No statistics, no surveys, but quotes from one developer, one journalist. Japan has it's share of alarmist/sensational journalism, warning about some perceived threat to Japanese industry from one quarter or another, so take it with a the requisite grain of salt.

I don't have time to translate the whole thing, but maybe one or someone else can do it..

 

[ecliptic]

So much more efficient that it warrants an entire company re-structuring to support a different system? I don't think so. Besides, in terms of ease-of-development, news is coming back as both positive and negative for both systems. Some people hate the PS3, some people love it. Some people hate the Xbox 360, some people love it. It's not like one is clearly above the other when it comes to convenient architecture and toolsets.

How is deciding which platform they want to develop for "restructuring" anything?'

we've seen many more devs praising MS's toolset for 360 than we have for the PS3. Carmack, Newall, etc. 1st party/2nd party devs dont count such as team ninja.

no one is saying 360 is magically cheaper to make games on. they are just saying that ps3 costs more.

1. There is no such thing as a 2nd party developer. It's like deciding to write a novel in 2nd person.

2. Team Ninja is a team at Tecmo and is 3rd party.

 

[London Geezer]

Of course there are 2nd party developers, or at least, people have been referring to some studios as "2nd party" for years. The line might be a bit blurred these days, it's just not very clear what some people call "2nd party" and "exclusive 3rd party". To me they're the same thing, more or less.

 

[Acert93]

1. There is no such thing as a 2nd party developer. It's like deciding to write a novel in 2nd person.

Nonsense. There are plenty of 2nd party developers in the market (or were). These are usually studios with large financial investment by the parent company and exclusively produce content for the parent company. e.g. Rare and Retro Studios at one time were 2nd party studios to Nintendo; Nintendo sold their stake in Rare and bought out Retro which is now a Nintendo 1st party developer.

2. Team Ninja is a team at Tecmo and is 3rd party.

Correct, Team Ninja is not a 2nd party, but a 3rd party developer. They may focus on one platform with certain genres but they are not financially obligated to. Further, DoA was on the PS2 and Dreamcast this last gen.

If Team Ninja is a 2nd party you need to include the dev team making GTA and FF etc.

Having an exclusive franchise, exlusive release period, or exclusively working with a platform for a period of time does not make one 2nd party.

 

[onanie]

There is no such thing as a 2nd party developer. It's like deciding to write a novel in 2nd person

Nonsense. There are plenty of 2nd party developers in the market (or were)

I think, in the linguistic sense, people are not supposed to say for example "This matter is handled by a second party", instead of "third party". Hence, the reference to "writing in 2nd person".

It's like playing GOW in 2nd person

 

[<nu>faust]

but lets say the reports of ms letting some top japanese developers publish their games on xbox 360 without worrying about royalty fees is really true,then wouldn't that become a real important factor in business planning of a video game developer ?

Here is my senario: If i'm gonna create a game and %20 percent of the money that i make is going towards to the royalty fees( to one manufacturer) and if another manufacturer comes up to me and say "listen i dont care about the money i loose in this business(since ms already lost 4bil), i have infinite financial resources and i want to increase my market share so for you developing a game for my platform will be like developing for an open platfrom". And then he also says "i'll provide you with my new dev tools(xna) so you can unify most of your devlopment process and port the game that you are working on to pc(which is also open platfrom) much easier way". I think its a great business proposition,the catch is that his great offer comes from the the guy who has only %20 of the market share of current gen.

In the other hand i have sony which doesnt give me any financial breaks,expect me to produce games looking like mgs4, and has this architecture which makes my code less portable to other platfroms (like newell says) but it is the company that everybody expects to be the market leader...

So what do i do?

i'd go play my game like konami does right now,i'll have one big flagship AAA title for each of the big platforms(keeping the most popular on ps3,kiddy one on nintendo,online one on 360) and relase most of my other games on all platfroms.After this next gen hype dust settles in 1-2 years,i'll look at the market structure again i'll revise my plan according to the realities of the industry.

 

[compres]

The same could be said this gen yet devs still use CGI most notably japanese developers.

cO_re have you taken a look at Sony's SDK? It's nearly a mirror image of MS's in allot of respects. Yes. In some instances things look worse but in other things also look better. I must agree with others that any greater difficulty in working with these tools would not be great enough as to cost devs millions of dollars more to develop for the PS3 than it would to develop for the X360.

As has been said and I also agree...both CPUs have the same high level problems to deal with and in the end it is the cost of developing high fidelity art content that really will make games expensive to make next gen. Whether it be CGI or high poly models for normal maps or uber-rez textures or complex geometry for game locales...it will be costly and this cost will be attached to both X360 and PS3 development.

------------------------------------------------

Rev may indeed go nowhere, but it is in better standing in Japan than the X360 if polls are to be believed. I happen to be a Nintendo fan as my name makes obvious, but I have no delusions as to the fact Nintendo is in a precarious position. You've no need to go there. I know the score well enough already.

Nintendo is here to stay, they make profit, thats what counts.

 

[c0_re]

Hey don't get me wrong I love Nintendo too, I just see them falling farther and farther behind each generation and not having the capital to keep up with M$ and Sony as far as R&D and how much their willing to loose to release the best hardware possible. I know it's all about the games but that only lasts so long ya know. I wish Nin would just stick with releasing games for the cube and eventually go 3rd party and hand held only. I just won't buy another Nintendo home console system, unless that is they mnager to launch it for under a 100$ and thats gonnabe tough

 

[BlueTsunami]

Hey don't get me wrong I love Nintendo too, I just see them falling farther and farther behind each generation and not having the capital to keep up with M$ and Sony as far as R&D and how much their willing to loose to release the best hardware possible. I know it's all about the games but that only lasts so long ya know. I wish Nin would just stick with releasing games for the cube and eventually go 3rd party and hand held only. I just won't buy another Nintendo home console system, unless that is they mnager to launch it for under a 100$ and thats gonnabe tough

To me, the more and more Nintendo breaks away from high level visuals (speculating that, doesn't mean thats what there going to do) the more na dmore there going to put that effort into OTHER things. Cost effectivness and smart game design is what makes Nintendo...Nintendo.

So when Microsoft and Sony push for visual realism, Nintendo will be trying to re invent the game as we know it. They may fail now and again...but somethings bound to stick...and I think thats what their banking on.

 

[Acert93]

Hey don't get me wrong I love Nintendo too, I just see them falling farther and farther behind each generation and not having the capital to keep up with M$ and Sony as far as R&D and how much their willing to loose to release the best hardware possible. I know it's all about the games but that only lasts so long ya know. I wish Nin would just stick with releasing games for the cube and eventually go 3rd party and hand held only. I just won't buy another Nintendo home console system, unless that is they mnager to launch it for under a 100$ and thats gonnabe tough

Nintendo has done quite well financially. Their profits rival Sony, they basically have no debt, and have $7B cash in the bank on top of all their assets. They could very well build a console like Sony or MS... they just choose not to.

For better or worse, they pave their own path in the industry. And whether hardcore gamers like it or not, they continue to succeed. While I question there moves all the time, ultimately you must tip your hat and admitt that their strategy has always been effective in making money. Their resistance is one of choice more than cash.

 

[c0_re]

Here is a big part of it for me, I've had an HDTV for 5+ years once I got used watching in HD rez I just cna't go back to watching crap on non HD channels. Same thing with gaming in 1080\720 I'll never be able to go back to 480p no matter how good the games are. I know that sounds fikle but hey once you experience HDTV quality you don't go back.

 

[mckmas8808]

Here is a big part of it for me, I've had an HDTV for 5+ years once I got used watching in HD rez I just cna't go back to watching crap on non HD channels. Same thing with gaming in 1080\720 I'll never be able to go back to 480p no matter how good the games are. I know that sounds fikle but hey once you experience HDTV quality you don't go back.

c0_re you and 90% of everybody else that has HDTV in their homes feel the same way you do. The other 10% are just lying.

 

[c0_re]

I mean I know I sound like snob saying that but hey now I get all the channels I want to watch in HDTV so I don't have to watch any SD or worse ANALOG CABLE eeek (shivers with fear)


I mean I'll even watch Gilmore Girls with the girlfriend because it's in HD I get to watch HD and score points with her a the same time but she knows if she records it on the Non HD station there's no chance of getting me away from my work laptop to get close on the couch.

 

[-tkf-]

My question is this does Sony have the resources and developer tools AT LAUNCH to overcome this 6-12 month lag? What do You think?
?

I think they have the time needed, mostly because lots of people, the ones that bought the PS2 and the PS2 games is gonna take a "wait and see approach". I'm sure the 360 will sell loads in the USA, it's their main market. But as for the rest of the world, it's more likely we will see first adapters buying while those that really count will wait for the "MAGIC CELL".

 

[expletive]

I think they have the time needed, mostly because lots of people, the ones that bought the PS2 and the PS2 games is gonna take a "wait and see approach". I'm sure the 360 will sell loads in the USA, it's their main market. But as for the rest of the world, it's more likely we will see first adapters buying while those that really count will wait for the "MAGIC CELL".

I agree thats what a lot of people are thinking right now. MS does not have an advantage simply by 'launching first', they have to have such a compelling launch that fence sitters become 360 owners.

J

 

[expletive]

Is this old news?

"Several developers, like John Carmack, have publicly announced a preference for the Xbox 360. But could that number be growing? The recent cancellation of Condemned for the PS3 seems to suggest as much… "

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000803061082/

J

 

[therealskywolf]

I don't believe for 1 sec in this thing. If it was like, devs are leaving because Sony is demanding too much of them....yeah i would buy that story.

But what is this about again? Lol

I think that people should be worried about the fact that there were no games playable at TGS for the PS3, and the ones being shown in gameplay form weren't anything to write home about, like Sonic and that Wipeout type of game by Koei.

Is sony demanding too much from developers? Are small devs showing the middle finger to Sony?

I doubt it, Sony wouldn't come out and play it like Nintendo would they?

 

[MoeStooge]

Funny that last time Un-named devs claimed that the PS3 was more powerful, there wasnt any agreements on this point.

(Not taking a shot at either of you, you may have brought the same point up then also which I may have missed :|)

I've noticed that there are more PS3 fans on this board than Xbox 360 fans.

The technical content of this forum keeps making me read, but the underlying biases make it hard. Of course, I read these lightning rod threads anyway...

Once I have purchased both systems I plan on doing my own personal benchmark to determine which system truly is more powerful. I found a cache of Atari 2600 E.T. the Extra Terrestial games buried in a secret location in the California desert. I will be running one copy on my "still working" Atari and a copy on the Xbox 360 and PS3. It's going to take me a while to convert it for the Xbox 360 since the game normally uses hard drive caching. The PS3 conversion should work fairly easily once I copy the ROM onto a Bluray disc- I'm just hoping that they've perfected the spincoating process and that the 50GB dual-layer is available because of all the full motion video required.