Is there a non-religious reason as to why same sex unions...

[PeterAce]

Should same-sex couples be able to Marry : Yes.

Should Churchs be able to choose who gets Married under their roofs : Yes.

Marrage = Civil Union = Registerd Partnership : Sometines No. RP's are sometimes second class Marriges/Civil Unions (like the RP soon to be introduced here in the UK).

Does any indervidual/government/religion/politician have a 'right' to tell me NOT to marry/register (in a registry office) my love? : ABSOLUTLY NOT.


Personally, I've been with my partner Joe for almost 5 years. I love him and he loves me yet we still can't publicly (and more importantly legally) marry/register our partnership.

 

[RussSchultz]

No, I can see how it might cost corporations to provide benefits to spouses (though, if you think about it, it would generally cost a corporation less if it covered a worker and a spouse than it would 2 workers. At least my company, anyways)

Yes, but you're going under the assumption that both would be working at the same company...what if that isn't the case or one isn't working at all?

If two working parters are at separate companies, they'll be in the same boat as married couples(generally). My employer, for example, covers me at 100%, my spouse and dependants at only 50% of cost. My wife and I both work, and its cheaper (for us) to have us on separate coverage.

True, there's a cost there, especially if you add dependants, but I don't see that as a real compelling reason as to why gay marriages are a political hot potato.

 

[Legion]

has anyone even presented information suggesting corporate american is opposing homosexual marriages?

 

[L233]

I am a homophobe, sort of.

I don't "hate" gays, I just find even the thought of two males rimming and assfucking each other extremely distasteful. It's a purely emotional thing, nothing which I can rationalize.

That being said, I do believe that everyone has the right to do whatever the hell he wants as long is it does not impact other people in a negative manner.

So while I find homosexuality distasteful, I have no issues with two guys going down on each other in their private bedroom. It does not harm me (or anyone for that matter) and it's simply none of my business.

I find the argument that gays cannot reproduce not conclusive. It's up to each individual whether he or she chooses to reproduce and their personal reasons are irrelevant to me.

The argument that homosexuality is "unnatural" is also preposterous. Who cares? For humans it is also "unnatural" to sit in a chair in front of a screen for 10 hours a day (that's why many people develope problems with their spine).

Neither do I accept religious arguments against homosexuality because I have zero respect for any religion anyway. To argue that some millennia old holy book filled with contradictions, inaccuracies and evident bullshit has any authority to dictate sexual morality is borderline moronic.

The only valid argument I can think of is the fact that I don't like homosexuality and that's not good enough a reason to constitute a basis for a general condemnation of homosexuality.

Gay civil marriage? Again, none of my business as long as there aren't any tax benefits or other financial incentives involved. The same actually should apply to heterosexual marriage unless there are children.

Gay church marriage? Imho, it's up the the churches to decide who to include in their religious rituals and who not. If they don't want to conduct marriage ceremonies for gays, no big deal.

Gay couples adopting children? Tough one but I think growing up in a familiy in which mommy has a dick is still preferrable to growing up in an orphanage.

 

[Blade]

Like every other tired argument, this one will continue to pop up again and again. Here, there, everywhere. It's always a hot topic. Anyways.. I like the whole argument of "you're a homophobe if you don't want gay marriage".

I don't want gay marriage because homosexuality = perversity IMHO. Am I a homophobe? Maybe. Seeing same-sex couples, not just male but also female, sickens me. Should I sit here and openly tolerate something that doesn't bode well for my stomach, universal morals, or the future of our society? No! I'm not here to bash gay people, I just can't accept their perversity.

Hate the act, not the people. Homosexuals, regardless of how they became that way, are people. People who are deviant. Hey, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it until somebody puts together concrete proof that one can be born gay.

Send your hate mail my way if you must.

I just can't bend over and take it from the slippery-slope liberals.. without a good fight anyway. Hehe..

 

[John Reynolds]

L233:

I'm a Christian and I think you summed up my feelings on this issue perfectly.

 

[nelg]

I find the attitude that homosexuality is simply a choice disturbing. I know a two homosexuals from very old fashioned Italian families that would do anything possible not be gay. The repercussions for one, upon his family discovering his orientation, was a severe beating by his own brother. Another ostracized from his entire family. I know that both of them, had they been able to, would certainly not choose to be gay. Every time I hear comments like “its their choiceâ€￾ I sympathize with them even more.

 

[MfA]

Increasing divorce rates have had a larger effect on family structure than gay marriages ever will ... if you are opposed because you think it will make any difference at all you are fighting windmills.

 

[Legion]

I find the attitude that homosexuality is simply a choice disturbing. I know a two homosexuals from very old fashioned Italian families that would do anything possible not be gay. The repercussions for one, upon his family discovering his orientation, was a severe beating by his own brother. Another ostracized from his entire family. I know that both of them, had they been able to, would certainly not choose to be gay. Every time I hear comments like “its their choiceâ€￾ I sympathize with them even more.

Do you find the attitude paedophilia is a choice disturbing as well? How can it be a choice? After all its a socially ridiculed behavior.

 

[Ty]

Increasing divorce rates have had a larger effect on family structure than gay marriages ever will ... if you are opposed because you think it will make any difference at all you are fighting windmills.

I find the argument that it hurts society to be spurious at best. Why aren't we doing more to fight adultery then?

 

[Legion]

Increasing divorce rates have had a larger effect on family structure than gay marriages ever will ... if you are opposed because you think it will make any difference at all you are fighting windmills.

I find the argument that it hurts society to be spurious at best. Why aren't we doing more to fight adultery then?

How exactly would you? Enforce morality on people?

 

[Natoma]

PeterAce, Nelg, MfA, Ty,

Agreed.

Legion,



L233, and John Reynolds

Thank you. Civil Marriage != Religious Marriage. And if we truly believe in a separation of church and state in this nation, then it should never be made out to be that way. I'm afraid that some straight people opposed to gay marriage think that all of a sudden their churches are going to be forced to perform the ceremonies and we're going to be barging in going "neener neener neener" while we walk down their aisles. Of course this is far from the truth. So again, thank you for making that very clear and separating your own sexual arousal traits to what should be in the law, i.e. equal protection for law abiding citizens.

p.s.: I'm not too crazy about watching a guy and a girl go at it. But it's ok. I still wub you straights anyway.

Blade,

You do realize the same arguments were made 50 years ago to keep interracial couples from marrying. It'd be the end of society. God's wrath would be visited down upon us. It's unnatural. Yadda yadda yadda.

Opinion duly noted nonetheless. I'll see you in about 40-50 years when this is all over (hopefully) and society is still standing, people aren't killing one another recklessly, children are still being taught the morals and values that are important, the 7 plagues haven't been visited upon us, and it's Chelsea Clinton vs Jenna Bush for Presidency of the United States.

Oh, and I'm married to my husband.

 

[RussSchultz]

But it's ok. I still wub you straights anyway.

I thought we were breeders?

 

[Natoma]

But it's ok. I still wub you straights anyway.

I thought we were breeders?

What... Did my dick fall off and I lost the ability to have kids or something?

 

[Ty]

How exactly would you? Enforce morality on people?

Hmm, I don't know.

I guess I'm specifically speaking about the argument that homosexuality "hurts" the welfare of society.

I was merely saying that it is my belief that adultery does way more harm than homosexuality does. If the welfare of society is what is at stake here, then we should be doing much, much more to suppress adultery imo.

 

[Legion]

Hmm, I don't know.

I guess I'm specifically speaking about the argument that homosexuality "hurts" the welfare of society.

I would say for marriages to work it is crucial one understands values and self sacrifice.

I was merely saying that it is my belief that adultery does way more harm than homosexuality does.

I don't think its the adultery that is at the root of the problem. I think it is selfishness more than likely of both partners which leads to a lot of said behaviors.

If the welfare of society is what is at stake here, then we should be doing much, much more to suppress adultery imo.

It seems to me your suggestion is rhetorical. How would you go about solving this problem when people simply lack the conviction to make marriage work? You'd have to provide people with a value structure that would convince them to make marriages work. I really don't have a problem with all the divorces persay. I think it simply reflects emptiness of moral relativism and the complete disintigration of families values.

 

[Tagrineth]

I find the attitude that homosexuality is simply a choice disturbing. I know a two homosexuals from very old fashioned Italian families that would do anything possible not be gay. The repercussions for one, upon his family discovering his orientation, was a severe beating by his own brother. Another ostracized from his entire family. I know that both of them, had they been able to, would certainly not choose to be gay. Every time I hear comments like “its their choiceâ€￾ I sympathize with them even more.

Do you find the attitude paedophilia is a choice disturbing as well? How can it be a choice? After all its a socially ridiculed behavior.

Wow, now that's a skewed retort.

What nelg was saying, is that it is a socially ridiculed behaviour, and yet even knowing that, the two men he knows are incapable of being 'straight' rather than gay.

Has anyone ever demonstrated that paedophiles are not attracted to adults at all, much like homosexuals to the opposite sex?

 

[ByteMe]

What about slowing down the spread of AIDS? All those butt pirates should be castrated!





Come on JR, I deserve a good spanking for that one.

 

[jvd]

You do realize the same arguments were made 50 years ago to keep interracial couples from marrying. It'd be the end of society. God's wrath would be visited down upon us. It's unnatural. Yadda yadda yadda.

While i can't speak about 50 years ago I can say it could not in anyway be worse than the world we live in right now. So mabye there was some truth to that .

What nelg was saying, is that it is a socially ridiculed behaviour, and yet even knowing that, the two men he knows are incapable of being 'straight' rather than gay.

Has anyone ever demonstrated that paedophiles are not attracted to adults at all, much like homosexuals to the opposite sex?

I can't answer it . But if the paedophiles are not attracted to adults will that make it okay ?

YOu seem to be saying that homosexuals are not attrated to the opposite sex so being gay is alright .

If so why is there an outrage against all the priests ?

 

[Natoma]

Sigh. All the talk about pedophiles is moot. Pedophiles are trying to have sex with children. Children have been legally defined as people who are incapable of making sexual decisions with adults, and cannot consent to any sexual activity with those "of age". Thus Pedophilia is basically similar to rape. Arbitrary, but true.

That is patently different than two consenting adults, be they heterosexual or homosexual.