Is MS using consumers?

[ninzel]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=26216

I just finished reading this article and couldn't help but feel a little sorry for add-on HD-DVD owners is this is true.Making profit in exchange for solid lasting product is one thing,but selling a product,taking the consumers money all the while hoping it fails thus making the purchase worthless goes too far.
It's all speculation,but alot of it makes sense.

 

[Blade47167]

I thought everyone was aware that they care nothing for HD-DVD :S. They are all about digital distribution and are trying to block a solid disk format from getting a hold on consumers for another 8 years. Not to mention it put a serious hurting on the PS3 when it was first released because it came with a blu-ray drive. This is also probably one of the main reasons theres not HD-DVD burners present on the market.

 

[Tap In]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=26216

I just finished reading this article and couldn't help but feel a little sorry for add-on HD-DVD owners is this is true.Making profit in exchange for solid lasting product is one thing,but selling a product,taking the consumers money all the while hoping it fails thus making the purchase worthless goes too far.
It's all speculation,but alot of it makes sense.

or there's the possibility that they made it in case it took off because that's what the public (at the time) was saying they wanted. I know that's what I wanted and was glad they released it and I own one. But hey, that's the risk we early adopters take with new technology.

I was hoping at the time that HD disc media would take off but it is going MUCH slower than I expected (both Blu ray and HD DVD seeing as I can still rent neither at my local video store). Now I'm much more in the digital download camp, which MS supports and was one of the first to do so and I wouldn't mind if disc media went away forever.

 

[Skrying]

Damn it, where is Toshiba? Where the HELL are they? I want to kill them! I mean, they've been selling people HD-DVD players for MONTHS now! Knowing full damn well that HD-DVD would fail! Screw that!

Wait... you're telling me that Toshiba will make Blu-Ray players also once HD-DVD fully dies? Wait!? You're telling me Microsoft will release a potential Blu-Ray add-on for the Xbox 360 if there is no support for HD-DVD any longer?! How can this be?

What did you expect? Microsoft, in my opinion, put out huge support for HD-DVD with the Xbox 360 add-on. It currently has like half of the HD-DVD market, that is pretty impressive considering and honestly alll of those are being used as players, so effectively Microsoft has just as much hardware support as Toshiba for the format. If that is not sticking by the format early I'm not sure what is. But you must realize, Microsoft would have pushed online distribution no matter what, it just simply makes sense from a business position. What they've done to this point is all based on business people. Would you be pissed off if Blu-Ray was failing? I don't know, instead of bashing Microsoft look at the picture the other way around, would you be angry at Sony? I wouldn't, I understand where both are coming from as far as business goes and that's fully what I expect from both of them.

What does it matter if Microsoft wants HD-DVD or Blu-Ray to fail? They've released their product, it works with the format it supports and that's all they promised. No company is going to go out of their way to support another product when the benefit is minimal to none.

 

[Tap In]

....What they've done to this point is all based on business people. Would you be pissed off if Blu-Ray was failing? I don't know, instead of bashing Microsoft look at the picture the other way around, would you be angry at Sony? I wouldn't, I understand where both are coming from as far as business goes and that's fully what I expect from both of them.
...

exactly

 

[ninzel]

"There's even an argument in some quarters which says that Toshiba's aggressive price-cutting of the HD-DVD hardware (standalone players at one point were half the price of Blu-ray players, and the Xbox 360 add-on is remarkably cheap) has backfired, by turning players into games console-style loss leaders. This has prevented any other consumer electronics manufacturers from entering the marketplace with their own hardware."

There's a big difference between selling something with a genuine interest in it succeeding that happens to not work out, and actually using the product you are selling with the interest of causing failure in the market.
If MS sold a cheap HD-DVD player knowing it would make it harder for others to make HD-DVD players,that's bad.

 

[Tap In]

....
If MS sold a cheap HD-DVD player knowing it would make it harder for other to make HD-DVD players,that's bad.

but good for me... I wouldn't have bought one at all if it were more expensive... I thought it was a great deal!

$199 with a movie and Universal remote.

I thought you're thread was started based on consumer advocacy, and now you seem worried about how it affects business?

you can't have everything.

 

[Skrying]

"There's even an argument in some quarters which says that Toshiba's aggressive price-cutting of the HD-DVD hardware (standalone players at one point were half the price of Blu-ray players, and the Xbox 360 add-on is remarkably cheap) has backfired, by turning players into games console-style loss leaders. This has prevented any other consumer electronics manufacturers from entering the marketplace with their own hardware."

There's a big difference between selling something with a genuine interest in it succeeding that happens to not work out, and actually using the product you are selling with the interest of causing failure in the market.
If MS sold a cheap HD-DVD player knowing it would make it harder for others to make HD-DVD players,that's bad.

The add-on would have needed to be the same price as the Toshiba players but not include basically everything that make those expensive? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. For some reason I seriously doubt Toshiba is angry at Microsoft for the add-on, hell I'm willing to bet Toshiba was pretty damn happy with the add-on.

 

[ninzel]

but good for me... I wouldn't have bought one at all if it were more expensive... I thought it was a great deal!

$199 with a movie and Universal remote.

I thought you're thread was started based on consumer advocacy, and now you seem worried about how it affects business?

you can't have everything.

It is consumer advocacy, alot of people bought the HD-DVD add-on believing it would last I'm sure. If MS knowingly hurt the potential success of it's own product for which it took money from consumer,that's bad.

 

[Tap In]

It is consumer advocacy, alot of people bought the HD-DVD add-on believing it would last I'm sure. If MS knowingly hurt the potential success of it's own product for which it took money from consumer,that's bad.

I'm not really following that logic and I bought one.

(especially considering it's a leap at a conspiracy theory of sorts)


so with the development of digital DL which I most definitely believe is the future... both formats may be screwed IMO. so are you pissed at Sony for adding ~$200 (simplified) to the cost of the PS3 so they can place Blu ray players in homes combined with a game console (undercutting other stand alones) not knowing for sure if it will last?

 

[Cheezdoodles]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=26216

I just finished reading this article and couldn't help but feel a little sorry for add-on HD-DVD owners is this is true.Making profit in exchange for solid lasting product is one thing,but selling a product,taking the consumers money all the while hoping it fails thus making the purchase worthless goes too far.
It's all speculation,but alot of it makes sense.

What kind of broken fanboy logic is this?

First of all, MS would be more than happy to see HD-DVD "winning" the war, because that would hurt their console competition, and earn them money. Its completely ridicoulus to say that MS wanted the project to fail.

Further, no matter how you try to spin this, the HD-DVD addon for the X360 is a great deal. MS should be hailed as being good to their customers in this particular case, as they are offering you a HD-DVD drive for far less than what the normal things retail for. (Atleast when it launched).

 

[BoardBonobo]

Definately a great deal for MS, they get another $200 for a product they don't really care about.

Controlling information is MS's deal, through DL they can control licensing, film rights, music rights, the whole shebang.

If there is one media available to everyone, and not just people with an internet connection (to an MS controled server - must beat Google to that one!), then they don't have total control.

Still they just got god knows how ever many $200's to help fund the take over!!!

And as for Sony and Blu-ray, well I would be pissed, but knowing that it, like CD, is a format they have intention of backing to the hilt and have invested large sums of money in I would never get worried about their commitmant to the technology.

 

[Rangers]

Definately a great deal for MS, they get another $200 for a product they don't really care about.

Controlling information is MS's deal, through DL they can control licensing, film rights, music rights, the whole shebang.

If there is one media available to everyone, and not just people with an internet connection (to an MS controled server - must beat Google to that one!), then they don't have total control.

Still they just got god knows how ever many $200's to help fund the take over!!!

And as for Sony and Blu-ray, well I would be pissed, but knowing that it, like CD, is a format they have intention of backing to the hilt and have invested large sums of money in I would never get worried about their commitmant to the technology.

Uh yeah. The reason Sony is "committed to the technology" is because they'll make lots of royalties off of it.

And it's ok that Sony is both making movies with one of the world's biggest studio conglomerates, and soon enough will be selling them over it's PS3 store? That's called a vertical monopoly, and it's worse than anything MS has got. Sony has been trying to own a proprietary format even at the cost of great losses for how many decades ?(Betamax, UMD, ATRAC, Blu Ray)

None of these companies are here to be charities. MS is no worse than Apple or Sony. However i do not believe the premise of the article for one second.

 

[ninzel]

Wow some of you guy's are way too defensive to have a serious discussion without it turning into a PS3 vs 360 thing. It's almost as bad here as most other gaming websites sometimes.
The articles questioning and logic is simple. MS was really never behind HD-DVD. Furthermore it's low ball pricing of the HD-DVD add-on instead of helping HD-DVD adoption in the long run may hurt it for the reason stated.
I simply wonder if that's true and if so is that MS using consumers in a bad way. Is that a legitimate business tactic or does it go too far. But don't let me stop you from twisting it into whatever you want it to be.

 

[Tap In]

...is that MS using consumers in a bad way....

sorry but this is just a silly question in the real world of doing business.

 

[ninzel]

sorry but this is just a silly question in the real world of doing business.

It's not at all a silly question if you don't take it out of context like you did.
The real world of business includes a real world of consumers that have certain expectations for every product they buy. To debate what those expectation can reasonably be expected to be or the ethics of business is a topic that is not only not silly,but something that is discussed in higher institutions of learning all over the world.

 

[Skrying]

Wow some of you guy's are way too defensive to have a serious discussion without it turning into a PS3 vs 360 thing. It's almost as bad here as most other gaming websites sometimes.
The articles questioning and logic is simple. MS was really never behind HD-DVD. Furthermore it's low ball pricing of the HD-DVD add-on instead of helping HD-DVD adoption in the long run may hurt it for the reason stated.
I simply wonder if that's true and if so is that MS using consumers in a bad way. Is that a legitimate business tactic or does it go too far. But don't let me stop you from twisting it into whatever you want it to be.

A serious discussion about what? The article in the first placed is making assumptions, therefore any discussion about it is worthless as its a worthless article. It makes no questions, it tells you basically what to think if not out right stating it. Microsoft are some real bad guys and they're out to screw you! Honestly, look at this question: Microsoft has released a cheap affordable HD-DVD drive for their video game console, what do you want them to do next in order to support HD-DVD? However immediately it is said that the low price of the drive is to damage HD-DVD and not help it. If this was the case do you think the people supplying the parts for the drive would have continued to do so if they thought it would hurt them in the end? You're the one who twisted it all up in the first place, instead of posing any type of question at first the entire premis of the "logic" is based on Microsoft purposely screwing people over in this case. If you make a assumption that Microsoft is doing it then you're of course going to think Microsoft is doing it.

 

[zed]

taking the consumers money all the ...sonally i dont feel theyre getting ripped off

 

[Dave Baumann]

If MS sold a cheap HD-DVD player knowing it would make it harder for others to make HD-DVD players,that's bad.

They are selling an optical driver with a USB HUB, thats it. To get it to work you also need a $300+ console, as thats there all the processing is done. Of course this is going to be cheaper than standalone models as the stand alone models not only need the electronics for processing - dedicated solutions, though, are going to be more cost effective for just HD playback; Toshiba solutions are already approaching the price of the initial release of the HD DVD add-on.

As for MS potentially hurting the adoption of other CE vendors, they are actually taking steps to further reduce costs of HD DVD adoption and encourage vendor support:

http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=950071

LAS VEGAS - Jan. 8, 2007 - Today at the 2007 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Microsoft Corp. and Broadcom Corp. announced a joint effort to support a hardware and software reference design for more cost-efficient HD DVD playback. The new platform uses Microsoft® Windows® CE 6.0 and Broadcom's BCM7440 system-on-chip solution, allowing consumer electronics manufacturers, original design manufacturers and systems integrators to more easily and affordably deliver HD DVD playback. Several of the more innovative, high volume electronics companies that plan to use this new hardware and software platform to speed the production of HD DVD players include Lite-On IT Corp. and Zhenjiang Jiangkui Group Co. Ltd./ED Digital.

 

[one]

Still they just got god knows how ever many $200's to help fund the take over!!!

Well that $200 goes straight to Toshiba, I doubt MS making a profit on it.