I did! It looks smaller but just as aliased to me. :?
Is free AA really worth it?
- Thread starter seismologist
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scooby_dooby said:
What HD games? There's like 3 in existense, unless you count PC games outputted to a TV.
I believe 1080p is only slightly higher res than 1600x1200.
1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels
1600x1200 = 1,920,000 pixels
Based on what I've done in counterstrike source, I'd say that 2x AA is all that's needed at 1600x1200, and above that AA isn't really needed for current games.
That and I've found that not all screens have aliasing as noticable, my LCD tends to have far less noticable jaggies(and the giant pixel effect isn't as bad for low res games) than my CRT.
1x would be no AA. That would just be one sample of the image.
Personally, I often don't bother with AA in PC games unless I can get it all. Using a lower level of AA, like 2x, may eliminate the aliasing on some parts of the image, but it just makes it even more noticable on the parts that don't have it.
BTW, why is it only now that we're getting HD res? PC games have been running at above 720P since the dreamcast came out.
seismologist
Regular
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/sakidd1/untitled.jpg
Here's a screenshot of me playing trackmania. No AA
I could probably get a screenshot with more stairstepping because it's there but I'd have to try hard to find it. The need for AA depends what game your playing. If you aren't looking at a lot of thin horizontal polygon edges then it's not that noticeable, IMO.
Here's a screenshot of me playing trackmania. No AA
I could probably get a screenshot with more stairstepping because it's there but I'd have to try hard to find it. The need for AA depends what game your playing. If you aren't looking at a lot of thin horizontal polygon edges then it's not that noticeable, IMO.
Listen to this guy. Everything that flickers, crawls or otherwise is a resulting of undersampling the environment needs eliminated, and viewing things in motion only makes it stick out more than in a screenshot. MSAA does wonders for the stability of the image.digitalwanderer said:
Alstrong said:Fox5 said:
er.... you really have to ask that? How about.... HDTV penetration into the market. Oh and try the memory restriction.
The saturn I believe was running at 800x600 all those years ago and outputting to a low res TV, supposendly it looked better than 640x480 output to the tv.
800x600 does look better outputted to the TV than 640x480 if I recall, last time I played around with that I had a Rage Fury (non-Pro).Fox5 said:
It looks better, but still like shite....I just can't get over how bloody big TV pixels are, I can't watch 'em anymore.
Inane_Dork said:
Listen to this guy?
digitalwanderer
Democratically Voted Village Idiot.
Joined: 19 Feb 2002
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I didn't vote but...
Anyway, It's subjective...I grew up on super-scaling blocky sprites on SEGA arcades and to me ART> ALL GRAPHICS.
But technically it's still subjective. It's the 'whole' package, i.e. lighting, animation, textures, polygons, anti-aliasing, colour palette etc. that gets my eyes 'popping'. Look no further than Wind Waker or Okami...
Dude, I grew up on Pong but that don't mean I can't grow and aquire higher standards.Jaws said:
Art is only good if the graphics show it off well for me.
seismologist said:
ATI won't use eDRAM in a PC part because off of all the different resolutions available, while the 360 will is a fixed console platform targeting only 720p. To render games at 1600 x 1200 would require a lot more eDRAM to have enough memory for 4 x A.A.
Next-gen games are going to tax GPU's a lot harder obviously. Polygon counts are going to increase, so I seriously doubt an increase in resolution by itself is going help image quality satisfactorily enough as far as aliasing is concerned.
digitalwanderer said:800x600 does look better outputted to the TV than 640x480 if I recall, last time I played around with that I had a Rage Fury (non-Pro).Fox5 said:
It looks better, but still like shite....I just can't get over how bloody big TV pixels are, I can't watch 'em anymore.
From my experiences with PC to TV output...any res over 640x480 just makes things blurrier, perhaps similar to XGI's subsampling?
Text became impossible to read over 640x480.
Little late to the party ( fell asleep outside for 3 hours in the sun and burnt my back . hurts alot so i layed on my tummy in the living room most of the day sleepingShifty Geezer said:
But what other stuff ? They could have added fp32 hdr like the rsx has . But they wouldn't have had the bandwidth to run fp32 . So they would have wasted those transistors there instead of using them in the edram daughter die which gives 4x fsaa free .
The xenos is a custom chip from the ground up . Alot of useless features are gone from the chip. Its targeted mainly at 1 res , 720p and to do 4x fsaa with complex sm3.0 shaders with hdr applied .
I don't see where they wasted transitors on edram as it was the way they met those goals .
Useless transitors would be features that the xenos would be unable to use effectively in games or wouldn't be of use . Video acclerator hardware , percision formats that are to demanding on the actuall hardware or other things included in the chip it couldn't use . other throw backs from the pc .
Brimstone said:
Considering AA is one of the main features people go for with more powerful graphics cards, and one of the few ways the performance of the latest graphics cards can be spent in new games, would be money well spent. 16MB eDram for a framebuffer would go along way towards AA performance, and they wouldn't need to pair it with a faster chip. Certainly if a graphics card is going to cost an extra couple hundred dollars, they can add some edram to it.
I can't belive people are still talking like their going to see games in 1080p, they me be upscaled to 1080p from 720 or 480p but no developer in their right mind is going to target their game to run at a rez less far less than .01% of the popluation can even view.
I went to Ultimate Electrons today, they had 1 1080p TV for sale out of the 300+ TV's on display and it wsa 13,000$. Best buy and CC had none. Gimme a break
I went to Ultimate Electrons today, they had 1 1080p TV for sale out of the 300+ TV's on display and it wsa 13,000$. Best buy and CC had none. Gimme a break
wireframe said:
Wireframe - I'm not sure thats true. The 192 highspeed SIMD units on the EDRAM can be used for anything... plus the Memexport function ... I think that MS just aims for 720p with 4xAA but if devs find a novel use and can bring it to life on the screen MS wouldn't balk...
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