Is Final Fantasy as we knew it, dead?

[Tagrineth]

Actually, unlike FF8, FF7 used the realtime models for several cutscenes. Only certain majour cutscenes used the high-res versions of the models.

I know, but I found this a bit strange too. E.g. the cutscene in the begining when Cloud jumps on the train, it looked sorta, don't know, odd or out of sync; the same with the scene in the mountains where the bridge collapses etc. But maybe this was only a glitch in the PC-version, which I played (never got my hands on the PSX-version). The 3D-models upon a 2D-background worked fairly well with the static backgrounds though. At least this whole issue has been solved thanks to more powerful hardware, as seen in Baten Kaitos (incredibly beautiful game, btw ).

Yes, the PC version desyncs very easily when realtime graphics are placed over the FMV... rather annoying.

I was, however, referring to FMV where within the video, the real-time models were actually used... for example, at the end of reactor 5, when the bridge blows up, Tifa, Cloud, and Barret are the same models as they were outside the video.

 

[Sonic]

Hey Tag, where have you been for the past few months? I haven't seen you around in forever.

I'm just excited about the new FF7 games and Advent Children. I just hope they don't turn out to be crap or anything like that. If CC is what I think it is then I will be a very happy man.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Actually, unlike FF8, FF7 used the realtime models for several cutscenes. Only certain majour cutscenes used the high-res versions of the models.

I know, but I found this a bit strange too. E.g. the cutscene in the begining when Cloud jumps on the train, it looked sorta, don't know, odd or out of sync; the same with the scene in the mountains where the bridge collapses etc. But maybe this was only a glitch in the PC-version, which I played (never got my hands on the PSX-version). The 3D-models upon a 2D-background worked fairly well with the static backgrounds though. At least this whole issue has been solved thanks to more powerful hardware, as seen in Baten Kaitos (incredibly beautiful game, btw ).

Yes, the PC version desyncs very easily when realtime graphics are placed over the FMV... rather annoying.

I was, however, referring to FMV where within the video, the real-time models were actually used... for example, at the end of reactor 5, when the bridge blows up, Tifa, Cloud, and Barret are the same models as they were outside the video.

Considering Square made all the CGI for FF7 in about 7 to 9 months, without real experience with the new program they used, I think they were sometimes forced to use in-game graphics.

 

[Phil]

Not only that but to stop the game to load the cut scene then to drop from the cut scene to load the game back up takes away too.

not true. FFVII to FFIX as well as FFX and FFX-2 didn't need any loading time for the FMVs. In fact, they always blended over nicely. 8)

 

[jarrod]

I-VI: 87, 88, 90, 91, 92, 94
VII-X2: 97, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03 (and that's only if you count XI in there amongst the regular FF's)

So if by "pumping them out way too fast" you mean "since they've been making FF's" then sure. Otherwise they're ahead by all of a year. And since I don't count XI in there really, the pace is pretty much the same.

I've been saying FF was the same since part 1. But hey that is just me.

Well, to be fair Square is extending the brand much farther these days (Crystal Chronicles, Tactics, FFVII Compilation, Chocobo spinoffs, Remakes, etc). Mario sequels might not be "pumped out" regularly, but that doesn't mean Nintendo haven't overextended the brand.

To look at things clearer, if we're just looking at just Final Fantasy games and not the specific main series...

1987
-Final Fantasy (FC)

1988
-Final Fantasy II (FC)

1989
-Final Fantasy (MSX) MicroCabin

1990
-Final Fantasy III (FC)

1991
-Final Fantasy Gaiden: Seiken Densetsu (GB)
-Final Fantasy IV (SFC)

1992
-Final Fantasy V (SFC)

1993
-Final Fantasy USA: Mystic Quest (SFC)

1994
-Final Fantasy VI (SFC)

Versus

1997
-Final Fantasy VII (PS)
-Final Fantasy IV (PS)
-Final Fantasy Tactics (PS)
-Chocobo no Fushigi Dungeon (PS) ChunSoft

1998
-Chocobo Racing (PS)
-Final Fantasy V (PS)
-Final Fantasy VII (PC)
-Chocobo's Dungeon 2 (PS)

1999
-Final Fantasy VIII (PS)
-Chocobo no Fushigi Dungeon (WS) Bandai
-Final Fantasy VI (PS)
-Final Fantasy VIII (PC)
-Chocobo Stallion (PS)

2000
-Final Fantasy IX (PS)
-Hataraku Chocobo (WS)
-Final Fantasy (WSC)

2001
-Final Fantasy II (WSC)
-Final Fantasy X (PS2)

2002
-Final Fantasy IV (WSC)
-Final Fantasy XI: Online (PS2)
-Chocobo Land: A Game of Dice (GBA)
-Final Fantasy (PS)
-Final Fantasy II (PS)

2003
-Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (GBA)
-Final Fantasy X-2 (PS2)
-Final Fantasy XI: Rise of the Zilart (PS2)
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (GC)
-Final Fantasy XI: Online (PC)

2004
-Final Fantasy (imode)
-Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promethia (PS2)
-Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promethia (PC)
-Final Fantasy I&II: Dawn of Souls (GBA)
-Final Fantasy EZ (EZ appli)
-Before Crisis: Final Fantasy VII (imode)
-Dragon Quest & Final Fantasy in Itadaki Street Special (PS2) Tamsoft

2005
-Advent Children: Final Fantasy VII (DVD)
-Advent Children: Final Fantasy VII (UMD)
-Final Fantasy II (imode)
-Final Fantasy XII (PS2)
-Final Fantasy III (DS)
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (DS)
-Dirge of Cerebrus: Final Fantasy VII (PS2)

2006
-Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII (PSP)

...bit of a difference there. And that's not even including the later Seiken Densetsu sequels.

 

[cthellis42]

Branding doesn't really mean anything in relation to the games, though. Certainly Mario is the most widespread brand in existance, but it doesn't affect the games' quality in relation to each other, or to previous genre-matches, or direct stylistic sequels. Branding only makes me tired of seeing the same faces--not judge the games differently.

Also, re-issued and re-branded old games on new systems will have jack to do with the way the new games are designed and played. And while FFXI will have diverted resources from other projects, it's still not something I'd stick into the "core run" of games people are talking about when comparing "Final Fantasy RPGs."

I mean, if you actually want to investigate things like this, you'll need to find the data on development team sizes and how it compares from FF projects to other ones and as a company total, how much they're financed (brought forward to today's dollars and balanced in relation to what projects cost from one system to another), how much time they're given from one stage to another... Lists of games is relatively meaningless. I balanced one trite comment with another, and simply pointed out that the pace at which the games were delivered in many people's "golden age of FF" is pretty much the same as they have since then as far as those FF RPG's go.

Most of the attitudes I find I believe stem from nostalgia, and what the games were like in relation to everything else at the time, on simpler systems and with fewer expectations. Changing storylines aside, most of us also grew up a lot, have more expectations, and are further removed from a type of game that is still aiming at fascinating a younger audience. (Who--let's face it--are easy to fascinate. ) From a top-down perspective, I find very little that's fundamentally different about the FF's; but then I am broader in my media enjoyment than most people I know, and I'm never looking to fit new games into a pre-fabbed mold. I played FFVI to play FFVI and I played FFVII to play FFVII, not to see how it reflected what I liked about previous games.

Shocking, I know.

 

[jvd]

Got final fantsy 1-2 for the gameboy today and i'm very very pissed off .

I had to buy a 10+ year old game to get a friggen good rpg out of square .

Very sad day.

Not just square but the last good rpg on a console was grandia 2 and going back more pds

 

[London Geezer]

1987
-Final Fantasy (FC)

1988
-Final Fantasy II (FC)

1989
-Final Fantasy (MSX) MicroCabin

1990
-Final Fantasy III (FC)

1991
-Final Fantasy Gaiden: Seiken Densetsu (GB)
-Final Fantasy IV (SFC)

1992
-Final Fantasy V (SFC)

1993
-Final Fantasy USA: Mystic Quest (SFC)

1994
-Final Fantasy VI (SFC)

Versus

1997
-Final Fantasy VII (PS)
-Final Fantasy IV (PS)
-Final Fantasy Tactics (PS)
-Chocobo no Fushigi Dungeon (PS) ChunSoft

1998
-Chocobo Racing (PS)
-Final Fantasy V (PS)
-Final Fantasy VII (PC)
-Chocobo's Dungeon 2 (PS)

1999
-Final Fantasy VIII (PS)
-Chocobo no Fushigi Dungeon (WS) Bandai
-Final Fantasy VI (PS)
-Final Fantasy VIII (PC)
-Chocobo Stallion (PS)

2000
-Final Fantasy IX (PS)
-Hataraku Chocobo (WS)
-Final Fantasy (WSC)

2001
-Final Fantasy II (WSC)
-Final Fantasy X (PS2)

2002
-Final Fantasy IV (WSC)
-Final Fantasy XI: Online (PS2)
-Chocobo Land: A Game of Dice (GBA)
-Final Fantasy (PS)
-Final Fantasy II (PS)

2003
-Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (GBA)
-Final Fantasy X-2 (PS2)
-Final Fantasy XI: Rise of the Zilart (PS2)
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (GC)
-Final Fantasy XI: Online (PC)

2004
-Final Fantasy (imode)
-Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promethia (PS2)
-Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promethia (PC)
-Final Fantasy I&II: Dawn of Souls (GBA)
-Final Fantasy EZ (EZ appli)
-Before Crisis: Final Fantasy VII (imode)
-Dragon Quest & Final Fantasy in Itadaki Street Special (PS2) Tamsoft

2005
-Advent Children: Final Fantasy VII (DVD)
-Advent Children: Final Fantasy VII (UMD)
-Final Fantasy II (imode)
-Final Fantasy XII (PS2)
-Final Fantasy III (DS)
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (DS)
-Dirge of Cerebrus: Final Fantasy VII (PS2)

2006
-Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII (PSP)

...bit of a difference there. And that's not even including the later Seiken Densetsu sequels.

Well the only thing shown on that chart is that Square have gone multiplatform. And remake-crazy. What, now we're gonna condemn them for trying to make money out of the gazillions of people who will buy a Square game no matter what?
If they're in the position to do that, good to them!!
They're not forcing you to buy FFTSW on Betamax, VHS, DVD, UMD, Blueray and HDDVD, you know...

 

[cthellis42]

...FFTSW on Betamax...

Ok dude, seriously, there are just some things in life you shouldn't say!

 

[Tagrineth]

Hey Tag, where have you been for the past few months? I haven't seen you around in forever.

I'm just excited about the new FF7 games and Advent Children. I just hope they don't turn out to be crap or anything like that. If CC is what I think it is then I will be a very happy man.

I've been busy with... well... life. I've moved to Winter Park, FL and attend Full Sail now... so a lot of my time recently has been spent getting set up here and all. Now I have some free time again... ^^;

I, too, am looking forward to the next chunk of FF7, heh.

 

[jarrod]

Well the only thing shown on that chart is that Square have gone multiplatform.

Actually, Square always supported more than one platform.

 

[cthellis42]

Not typically "at a time." NES to SNES to PSX to PS2... They've tossed out projects to the portables, of course, (WonderSwan included) but I'm sure he was talking about mainstream consoles. Other than a quick bone tossed to the PC with FFVII and VIII, they almost exclusively ran down the line of what they were most familiar with and was most popular.

Granted it's not like their support has grown staggering yet--a quick bone tossed to the GameCube and a MMORPG drive on the PC (because they're cash cows if you can make them work )... They do seem to be building up a lot more support for the handhelds, though: keeping things strong with the GBA while looking into the DS, PSP, and cell phone gaming... It's broader than before, but they're still no Capcom (who seemed to want to give exclusives to everybody) or EA (who feeds at every trough).

 

[Phil]

guys... I love Final Fantasy IX! Just had to let that one out! 8)

Should I get FFVIII too or is it really that bad?