Impact of XNA community on publishers?

[expletive]

From the business side of things, does any else feel that the 'you-tube of games' could have an negative impact on bigger-budget game sales? If this initial, basic concept is successful, will some gamers now be spending more of their time on the XNA Community channel than buying and playing published games?

I can see a situation where people are posting "i just turn on my xbox and check out top rated community titles first and check those out" I wonder if this will put a significant dent into gamers' disposable game hours and result in overall less sales? How do devs and publishers feel about this?

I guess we don't know the whole picture on the business model yet, but it does indeed seem as if the community games will at least start as free, with maybe the best ones being polished and expanded for XBLA? Maybe a donation model? I like the idea from ther gamer perspective but dont fully understand the business side of it.

 

[inefficient]

Publishers will just start snapping up projects and talent that shows up here.

Think of it more as an free indie rock festival vs an actual rock concert. Most of those guys at the indie event are going to be embarassingly bad. But a couple will stand out and eventually get real contracts as they get attracted by publishers with the promise of real money.

 

[mrcorbo]

There will be a way for developers to charge for community projects, but the details haven't been finalized yet.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

We should also see 'real' developers producing and publishing content without needing to fuss about publishers. Deshackling the industry from the money-men is a philosophy many devs are bound to at least cheer even if they don't jump at it. Take Team17 for example, who have wanted to produce non-Worms games but their publishers weren't interested. A version of Alien Breed had been created but the publishers didn't want to know. What's to stop them creating some simple 2D games to get started, and then funnelling any profits into future developments to become self-supportive?

If it has a negative impact on the publishers, they'll adapt. Eventually the games that people buy will be the games that get made.

 

[patsu]

Off the top of my head...

Consumers: Interesting games will float organically to the top. Consumers get to play Top 10 XNA games for free or a nominal fee (per-title or subscription). Will benefit prosumers and hardcore gamers the most. Casuals will only get involved occasionally.

Developers: Gets to try out new ideas quickly and easily. Also benefit independent developers. Most will get the satisfaction out of self expression, recognition instead of financial benefits.

Publishers: More exposed to proven gaming ideas. Big budget game will continue as usual. Depending on how XNA Live and XBL Arcade evolve, they will likely focus on the one with the most reach and growth. Cost is secondary since both are low.

Microsoft: Gets to retain developer and prosumer talent. Get to accumulate royalties from all sales regardless of how well a title do. Gets free PR and loyalty within the community.



Sony: Lower and lower PSN game development cost. Likely will streamline their processes further (but continues to scout game talent and market their product).

They will probably focus on the consumers instead of prosumers/professionals. We may hear more about:

* Consumers: Game 3.0. Home media sharing/exchange, plus games with user-generated content (e.g., UT 3, LBP, Echochrome, MMO with in-game assets), and a marketplace for finding the extra content. Proven ones may be distributed in Blu-ray discs (or even Blu-ray movies).

* Prosumers/Professionals: Home arcade. The most interesting question here is the choice of development platform. If it's Java, then it will tie in with their Blu-ray, cellphone businesses and Internet at large. If it's C/C++, then it's just another PSN category.

Just my guesses.

 

[archangelmorph]

* Prosumers/Professionals: Home arcade. The most interesting question here is the choice of development platform. If it's Java, then it will tie in with their Blu-ray, cellphone businesses and Internet at large. If it's C/C++, then it's just another PSN category.

From what I heard (in the public domain of course..) think it's supposed to be lua-based..

 

[patsu]

From what I heard (in the public domain of course..) think it's supposed to be lua-based..

Then it can run on Playstations (PS3 + PSP at least).

Okay, as an example of what I meant by Sony focusing on the consumers (instead of prosumers)...
http://kotaku.com/358978/playstation-eye-tank-war-demo-is-next-gen-tech

 

[slider]

I love how that kotaku video ended.

 

[patsu]

I missed that last part actually. It reminds me of a FPS mod where all the players are crates in a room full of crates.

 

[archie4oz]

* Prosumers/Professionals: Home arcade. The most interesting question here is the choice of development platform. If it's Java, then it will tie in with their Blu-ray, cellphone businesses and Internet at large. If it's C/C++, then it's just another PSN category

From what I heard (in the public domain of course..) think it's supposed to be lua-based..

Feh, gimme a nice Squeak or Ruby env instead...

 

[Titanio]

The whole thing about people watching youtube now instead of TV..

..and what if the same thing happened with games...

I don't think they're really comparable situations.

If an indie has made something that's competitive with what the bigger publishers have coming out, I doubt in most cases they'd give it away for free. So for other pubs, it would just be like more competition on a relatively level playing field.

For all the talk about democratising game development, in this context, it will never be like democratising video or video distribution. You need far more skill, far more talent, and you can't simply copy professional games onto a youtube like service in the same way people copy professional television shows as is onto youtube (albeit split into 10 minute chunks). So I think they can quite easily co-exist, and I don't think pubs should be too concerned. I think consumers who invest in a platform like 360 aren't going to buy into it just for the types of experience available from community games, experiences which will be very different altogether from the types of big budget productions traditional pubs put out.

 

[PARANOiA]

Anything that makes publishers have to work harder for my dollar is a fantastic thing, IMO. I certainly won't cry and tears for publishers having to drop prices, increase value, and raise quality standards.

The independent developer being empowered is a huge step forward for the console market. When I look at the gems that have been spat out of this in recent times on the PC - Portal, Counterstrike, Audiosurf - I am filled with pride at what I consider my peers.

XNA isn't about "free games", either... it's about giving independent developers a platfom to build and launch their game with their end goal being a profit if their game has an audience.

Tongue in cheek analogy: To me, the argument of "but what about the publishers??" makes me think of the suits in the recording industry trying to ban or tax CD burners and mic-in on home PC's to limit the ability of the indepentant musician so Brittney's latest opus sells better. The fact that the cheque-book entry barrier on the console market has now dropped to $100/yr thanks to XNA means we'll see more unique ideas, and hopefully less Guitar Hero 54: Eric Clapton/Battlefield 3423/whatever other franchise whoring is out there.

 

[archie4oz]

Tongue in cheek analogy: To me, the argument of "but what about the publishers??" makes me think of the suits in the recording industry trying to ban or tax CD burners and mic-in on home PC's to limit the ability of the indepentant musician so Brittney's latest opus sells better.

More like investment bankers in a bear market...

 

[archangelmorph]

The independent developer being empowered is a huge step forward for the console market. When I look at the gems that have been spat out of this in recent times on the PC - Portal, Counterstrike, Audiosurf - I am filled with pride at what I consider my peers.

See it's interesting because the only differences between these guys & professional developers are larger scope, wider collaborative efforts (e.g. 30 ppl instead of 10) & all of this is down purely to big wads of cash (accumulated by selling products on the market..)

It won't be long before this XNA community establishes it's own commercial sub culture of 'community'-labelled companies who do exactly what we do for a living; make games & get paid for it..

 

[patsu]

Just like a commerce venture, only people who put it serious effort and time in XNA Live will gain from it. My sense is XNA Live and XBLA will combine in the long term but I have no proof. It's just that the XBLA + XNA Live picture is too fragmented for my taste.

Meanwhile, Microsoft is adjusting its "small games" business model
http://kotaku.com/359668/microsoft-cuts-indie-royalties-in-half

News of Microsoft's democratization of Indie game development was overshadowed this week by an increasing discontent among established Indie developers that the company was halving the royalties paid to them for future projects, several well-informed sources told Kotaku.

Small games don't sell platforms. What's the cost of supporting XBLA developers ? XBLA already has many games. Can they wait for cool games to appear on rival's digital store first, and then port only the successful ones over ?

Feh, gimme a nice Squeak or Ruby env instead...

I didn't know game developers use Ruby ?

 

[joker454]

This should minimize xna's impact on larger scale games:

http://kotaku.com/359668/microsoft-cuts-indie-royalties-in-half

Not sure what Microsoft is thinking. I guess they really want to keep it indie, ie, keep a day job and perhaps make a game on the side. At this new royalty level it will be very hard to make xna games for a living now.

 

[AlNom]

Well... just when you think they took a step forward, they take two steps back....... How does cutting royalty rates encourage people to embrace XNA? :|

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Greedy scallywags! How does that royalty compare with other download services though? Do we know what PSN and Wiiware developers can look forwards too?

 

[Zassk]

This should minimize xna's impact on larger scale games:

http://kotaku.com/359668/microsoft-cuts-indie-royalties-in-half

Not sure what Microsoft is thinking. I guess they really want to keep it indie, ie, keep a day job and perhaps make a game on the side. At this new royalty level it will be very hard to make xna games for a living now.

Is this rumor substantiated? Kotaku rumors are not exactly trustworthy.

a) was it actually 70%?
b) is it actually 35% now?
c) what are the standard rates for PSN or Wii Ware by comparison?

 

[joker454]

a) was it actually 70%?

Thats the number I had heard. It was also mentioned in this article here:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17216

...in this quote:

"Microsoft takes a percentage of this for allowing you to put your game on XBLA. Let's say that percentage is 30% (a figure given by Team17 since they self-published Worms - it may differ for 'first-party' games). "

Theres a link to sales figures in that same article, here's that link:

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=822

Unfortunately, to me it now seems like forming a business around xna in the US is no longer really feasible, assuming that rumor is true. But me and some friends will still try making a game on the side. We'll definitely keep our day jobs now though!